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RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-21-2019

Well.....she was a witch and the creative team didn't seem to be able to find much use for her in seasons 5 or 6.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 02:24 PM)irukandji Wrote: Well.....she was a witch and the creative team didn't seem to be able to find much use for her in seasons 5 or 6.

Without Juliette's death and Adalind's new role, the whole story arc of season 5 would be different anyway.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - dicappatore - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 10:50 AM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 04:51 AM)N_grimm Wrote: At least she didn't go for the "I'm not Adalind anymore" version...

But here's the thing. Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

You mean the only way to make Nick and Adalind a couple? Adalind and Juliette where both in the show in the first 4 seasons. This is fiction, so I suppose it would be possible to have millions of alterative storylines.

Unfortunately N, some of your critics keep overlooking the fact that the "Adalind" character was much more popular than the Juliette character for the first 4 seasons, if not for all 6 seasons. Killing Juliette and bringing her back as Eve is what saved the Juliette character from being killed off permanently by the end of season 4.

Again, look at this absurd comment;

(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote: Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

Anyone watching the undelusional version of the actual show can easily see what took place was the exact opposite. In actuality, Juliette was made into someone else, as to keep her in the series.

What the creative team did was, keep the more popular character, Adalind to become the main character's love interest, to team up with Nick. Meanwhile, they revamped the failed Juliette character into Eve to add and assist Nick in his endeavors.

To all you Juliette fans, what I said about Juliette/Eve assisting Nick is correct. Juliette/Eve wasn't even the main supporting character. She was more of a secondary, better yet, a tertiary one, at best. No matter how much you try to make the Grimm series into a Juliette series, it did not happen.

P.S. To syscrash. How's that for "writers intent"?


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-22-2019

(05-21-2019, 03:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 02:24 PM)irukandji Wrote: Well.....she was a witch and the creative team didn't seem to be able to find much use for her in seasons 5 or 6.

Without Juliette's death and Adalind's new role, the whole story arc of season 5 would be different anyway.

I don't know what other role could Adalind have been put into. If the creative team thought she was such a popular character, more popular than Juliette/Eve, as (dementedly suggested by one here with no proof to back up such a claim), why then give Juliette a much more meatier backstory to support her new character?

I don't want to get into another boring Juliette versus Adalind debate. All I am saying is that the creative team could only see Adalind as a villain, and thus, maintained her as a villian. Instead of further developing her into a sophisticated villain, (because she was very popular as a villain), they decide to incorporate a rape induced pregnancy into the storyline and force all of the characters into buying Adalind's new worth as Nick's squeeze.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-22-2019

(05-21-2019, 10:18 PM)dicappatore Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 10:50 AM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 04:51 AM)N_grimm Wrote: At least she didn't go for the "I'm not Adalind anymore" version...

But here's the thing. Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

You mean the only way to make Nick and Adalind a couple? Adalind and Juliette where both in the show in the first 4 seasons. This is fiction, so I suppose it would be possible to have millions of alterative storylines.

Unfortunately N, some of your critics keep overlooking the fact that the "Adalind" character was much more popular than the Juliette character for the first 4 seasons, if not for all 6 seasons. Killing Juliette and bringing her back as Eve is what saved the Juliette character from being killed off permanently by the end of season 4.

Again, look at this absurd comment;

(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote: Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

Anyone watching the undelusional version of the actual show can easily see what took place was the exact opposite. In actuality, Juliette was made into someone else, as to keep her in the series.

What the creative team did was, keep the more popular character, Adalind to become the main character's love interest, to team up with Nick. Meanwhile, they revamped the failed Juliette character into Eve to add and assist Nick in his endeavors.

To all you Juliette fans, what I said about Juliette/Eve assisting Nick is correct. Juliette/Eve wasn't even the main supporting character. She was more of a secondary, better yet, a tertiary one, at best. No matter how much you try to make the Grimm series into a Juliette series, it did not happen.

P.S. To syscrash. How's that for "writers intent"?

This is of course correct. Juliette was probably one of the least popular characters in Grimm. Below I've pasted a survey from this forum: 111 people answered the survey, so it should be quite representative. Keep in mind that this was made before Eve, so it's reasonable to assume that Juliette's popularity would be even lower in season 5-6.


Nick Burkhardt 20 (18.02%)
Juliette Silverton 4 (3.60%)
Monroe 37 (33.33%)
Hank Griffin 1 (0.90%)
Rosalee Calvert 5 (4.50%)
Sean Renard 11 (9.91%)
Sergeant Wu 4 (3.60%)
Adalind Schade 19 (17.12%)
Kelly Burkhardt 3 (2.70%)
Bud Wurstner 7 (6.31%)

Source: https://grimmforum.com/forum/polls.php?action=showresults&pid=5


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - dicappatore - 05-22-2019

(05-22-2019, 12:58 PM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 10:18 PM)dicappatore Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 10:50 AM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 04:51 AM)N_grimm Wrote: At least she didn't go for the "I'm not Adalind anymore" version...

But here's the thing. Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

You mean the only way to make Nick and Adalind a couple? Adalind and Juliette where both in the show in the first 4 seasons. This is fiction, so I suppose it would be possible to have millions of alterative storylines.

Unfortunately N, some of your critics keep overlooking the fact that the "Adalind" character was much more popular than the Juliette character for the first 4 seasons, if not for all 6 seasons. Killing Juliette and bringing her back as Eve is what saved the Juliette character from being killed off permanently by the end of season 4.

Again, look at this absurd comment;

(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote: Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

Anyone watching the undelusional version of the actual show can easily see what took place was the exact opposite. In actuality, Juliette was made into someone else, as to keep her in the series.

What the creative team did was, keep the more popular character, Adalind to become the main character's love interest, to team up with Nick. Meanwhile, they revamped the failed Juliette character into Eve to add and assist Nick in his endeavors.

To all you Juliette fans, what I said about Juliette/Eve assisting Nick is correct. Juliette/Eve wasn't even the main supporting character. She was more of a secondary, better yet, a tertiary one, at best. No matter how much you try to make the Grimm series into a Juliette series, it did not happen.

P.S. To syscrash. How's that for "writers intent"?

This is of course correct. Juliette was probably one of the least popular characters in Grimm. Below I've pasted a survey from this forum: 111 people answered the survey, so it should be quite representative. Keep in mind that this was made before Eve, so it's reasonable to assume that Juliette's popularity would be even lower in season 5-6.


Nick Burkhardt 20 (18.02%)
Juliette Silverton 4 (3.60%)
Monroe 37 (33.33%)
Hank Griffin 1 (0.90%)
Rosalee Calvert 5 (4.50%)
Sean Renard 11 (9.91%)
Sergeant Wu 4 (3.60%)
Adalind Schade 19 (17.12%)
Kelly Burkhardt 3 (2.70%)
Bud Wurstner 7 (6.31%)

Source: https://grimmforum.com/forum/polls.php?action=showresults&pid=5

As I recall there was also more said about this on one of the interview or commentary about the show with the mentioning of favorite characters.



(05-22-2019, 04:16 AM)irukandji Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 03:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 02:24 PM)irukandji Wrote: Well.....she was a witch and the creative team didn't seem to be able to find much use for her in seasons 5 or 6.

Without Juliette's death and Adalind's new role, the whole story arc of season 5 would be different anyway.

I don't know what other role could Adalind have been put into. If the creative team thought she was such a popular character, more popular than Juliette/Eve, as (dementedly suggested by one here with no proof to back up such a claim), why then give Juliette a much more meatier backstory to support her new character?

I don't want to get into another boring Juliette versus Adalind debate. All I am saying is that the creative team could only see Adalind as a villain, and thus, maintained her as a villian. Instead of further developing her into a sophisticated villain, (because she was very popular as a villain), they decide to incorporate a rape induced pregnancy into the storyline and force all of the characters into buying Adalind's new worth as Nick's squeeze.

All I can say is 3 things;
1. "The Truth shall Set You Free".
2. "Knowledge is Power".
3. Read N_grimm's post.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-22-2019

I don't think anyone is denying that Adalind was a popular character. But the facts stand. Her character just wasn't versatile enough to expand her into different story arcs. Otherwise, the creative team wouldn't have relegated her to happy homemaker status in the fome with her baby.

As for Juliette/Eve probably being the most unpopular character? That's based on a very limited spot of information/comments here on the forum. Is it representative of the entire fan base? While I think some posters would absolutely love it to be so, there's nothing to support the claim. Aside from that, even if it were true, it's obvious that fan dislike does not weigh heavily on the creative team. I imagine they could care less if fans like her or despise her.

The creative team viewed her differently. Juliette was always a main character. We wouldn't know as much about her if she wasn't. Making her into a warrior so she could fight with HW and then later with Nick and the scoobies really put her into the spotlight. I was never thrilled with the character of Eve. There were far more interesting scenarios for Juliette. However, the fact that so many managed to complain about Eve shows that she was in the spotlight during seasons five and six. Supporting characters don't get that much on screen time.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-23-2019

(05-22-2019, 05:58 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't think anyone is denying that Adalind was a popular character. But the facts stand. Her character just wasn't versatile enough to expand her into different story arcs. Otherwise, the creative team wouldn't have relegated her to happy homemaker status in the fome with her baby.

As for Juliette/Eve probably being the most unpopular character? That's based on a very limited spot of information/comments here on the forum. Is it representative of the entire fan base? While I think some posters would absolutely love it to be so, there's nothing to support the claim. Aside from that, even if it were true, it's obvious that fan dislike does not weigh heavily on the creative team. I imagine they could care less if fans like her or despise her.

The creative team viewed her differently. Juliette was always a main character. We wouldn't know as much about her if she wasn't. Making her into a warrior so she could fight with HW and then later with Nick and the scoobies really put her into the spotlight. I was never thrilled with the character of Eve. There were far more interesting scenarios for Juliette. However, the fact that so many managed to complain about Eve shows that she was in the spotlight during seasons five and six. Supporting characters don't get that much on screen time.

Nick was the ONLY main character in Grimm. How you rank the importance of the regular supporting characters, will partly depend on what aspect of Nick’s life you found most interesting. Although Monroe early on became very popular, he could never be more than Nick’s wesen sidekick. The creators have said that the order of the deaths in the final reflected the importance of the characters. Based on that, we have the following ranking:

1) Nick
2) Monroe/Rosalee
3) Adalind
4) Renard
5) Eve
6) Hank
7) Wu

You could argue that Eve only got killed later than Hank because of her link to Juliette in season 1-4. It’s also obvious that Rosalee got killed that late because of her close connection to Monroe.

Nick was the Grimm and the hero. Monroe/Rosalee were Nick’s wesen helpers. Hank and Wu were Nick’s police partners. In season 5 and 6 Adalind was Nick’s love interest/girlfriend and Renard the evil captain/villain. But what was Eve? She was a sort of mysterious figure that was given “random” functions depending on the circumstances. I always had the impression that the creators didn’t really know how to use her in the storyline and that she was only brought back because of Bitsie's relationship with DG. I didn’t dislike Juliette before she turned evil, but I found the Eve character strange.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-23-2019

(05-23-2019, 02:30 PM)N_grimm Wrote: Nick was the Grimm and the hero. Monroe/Rosalee were Nick’s wesen helpers. Hank and Wu were Nick’s police partners. In season 5 and 6 Adalind was Nick’s love interest/girlfriend and Renard the evil captain/villain. But what was Eve? She was a sort of mysterious figure that was given “random” functions depending on the circumstances. I always had the impression that the creators didn’t really know how to use her in the storyline and that she was only brought back because of Bitsie's relationship with DG. I didn’t dislike Juliette before she turned evil, but I found the Eve character strange.

Nick is a main character in Grimm, but he isn't the only one.

Monroe/Rosalee-I can actually see a combination of supporting characters/main characters, depending on the story line.

Hank/Wu-I can see them as supporting characters.

Renard-definitely a main character.

Adalind-I still have to stick with supporting character on this one. It seemed her purpose during the first four seasons was at first, villainess under Renard's guidance, then subordinate villainess to the royals. The last two seasons, she was there as mother to Nick's baby.

Juliette-I can see her as a supporting character, but she also was often a main character in her own right, depending on the story.

Eve-definitely a main character all the way.

Diana-While Diana really came onto the scene late in the series, she is also definitely a main character.

Bud-supporting character.

Trubel-supporting character.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - FaceInTheCrowd - 05-23-2019

Monroe was originally cast as the sidekick, i.e., Robin, Tonto, Dr. Watson, etc.

Rosalee, like Adalind, was originally cast as a recurring/guest character and was "promoted" to series regular after she and Monroe merged into "Monrosalee."