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what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - Printable Version

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RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-21-2019

(05-20-2019, 04:49 PM)eric Wrote:
(05-20-2019, 11:24 AM)N_grimm Wrote:
(05-20-2019, 08:35 AM)eric Wrote: Thanks for telling me about the link. Guess I missed it - things crazy here. I missed Nick's opening line, but I don't think it changes the conversation. Nick would like to go back to their before life, Eve doesn't. A whole new world has opened for her - and him - and she likes it. She is no longer the damsel in distress whose whole life depends on her shining knight to save her, she can kill any dragons out there. She admits the wrongs she has done, but knows she can't change any of that. Since Nick and Adeline were still together 20 years later, I guess Nick has moved on as well.

eric, I can’t even understand how you can think Nick wants Juliette/Eve back. You have sound opinions on some issues, but here I strongly disagree.

Juliette turning evil, getting killed and then come back as Eve, must have been a mental strain on Nick. They needed to have that conversation. But Nick doesn’t say ANYTING about wanting his old life back. When Eve says “And if you could, would you really want to go back to the way things were, just to be happy?”, Nick doesn’t respond. When he lost his Grimm powers, that was a big blow to him. When he lost Adalind and Kelly, he was fighting to get them back. To claim he would give it all up, including his son, to be with a woman who tried to kill him and his son, and then helped having his mother beheaded, is inconsistent with the storyline. It’s also an insult to Nick’s character (if it’s possible to insult fiction people). Eve reminds Nick of old Juliette. She's no longer evil. Nick has forgiven her, but he can't forget what she did.

Nick felt responsible for Juliette turning into a hex, but he didn’t want to go back. I do not think Nick lied when he told Adalind in s5e07: “Juliette being back does not change the way I feel about Kelly or you”. This issue has also been addressed by Jim Kouf who described Nick's relationship with Eve as a "deep friendship," and said Nick’s "love has gone where his family is, which is with his son Kelly and Adalind”.

I also disagree that Eve/Juliette admits the mistakes she has done. Instead she pretends that someone else did it, by keep saying “I’m not Juliette anymore”. Her last words after Z made her stab herself was: "no regrets”. If Juliette had no control after the hex-nerve kicked in, then she was another person. But Adalind's story tells us that a Hexenbiest can make her own choices. The same applies to Eve version 2.0.
In the final fight of season 4, Nick had a chance to end Juliette's life. I think most people watching the show would have viewed that as justified homicide. Instead he stops. When Truble shoots Juliette, did he kick the body and spit on it and thank Truble? Once again, most would have been okay with that, all things considered-- his mom's body wasn't even cold yet. No, he held her in his arms and cried like someone who had lost their love. You can love a person and hate what they do to you-- country and western music is full of that. When I see the scene right before Z shows up, I have the feeling Nick would have taken her back if she had wanted to go back. He didn't say so, but his eyes seem to say please come back like we were. Adeline did a lot of bad things, I may be wrong but did she ever say sorry to Hank for attempted murder, Wu for making him eat a carpet, Juliette's memory loss, the de-Grimming of Nick ? If so I missed it. Adeline had a life time learning to control her hex, Juliette had what--one, two weeks?

Yes, Adalind did apologize (with tears in the eyes) to all of them when she and Nick had Monroe, Rosalee, Hank and Wu over for dinner. She also told Nick she wished she could take it all back. I do not understand why you keep ignoring Kelly. A lot of stuff has happened since the season 4 final. Nick is a father, that must mean more to him than Juliette. In the end, when everyone dies, and Nick shouts to his mother and aunt that he wants them back, Juliette is lumped together with the rest as “my friends”. Only Adalind, Kelly and Diana are mentioned by names. There is nothing in the storyline indication that Nick in late season 6 would trade Adalind and Kelly for Juliette. You can even argue that Nick only went after Eve to the other side to stop Adalind from going through the mirror. In some scenes, Nick is shown to be concerned about her, as in the hospital, in other scenes, Nick is slightly irritated by her presence. There is even a (deleted) scene where Nick complains to Adalind about letting Eve stay at the loft. I know that the Juliette-fans didn’t like how this ended, but Nick did not love Eve in a romantic way. Juliette was only killed in the first place to make space for the Nick and Adalind relationship.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-21-2019

(05-20-2019, 05:31 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Adalind's apology ended up as a deleted scene in episode 510.

That wasn't the same apology she made to Eve then. Well, I can see why they deleted it. Adalind isn't particularly effective at apologizing. (Too much water under the bridge I think).


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 04:31 AM)irukandji Wrote:
(05-20-2019, 05:31 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Adalind's apology ended up as a deleted scene in episode 510.

That wasn't the same apology she made to Eve then. Well, I can see why they deleted it. Adalind isn't particularly effective at apologizing. (Too much water under the bridge I think).


Found this link:

https://vk.com/wall-94412809?offset=0&owners_only=1&q=%23grimm&z=video-94412809_456239300%2F161acb29d8d6b4064e%2Fpl_post_-94412809_21577


At least she didn't go for the "I'm not Adalind anymore" version...


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 04:51 AM)N_grimm Wrote: At least she didn't go for the "I'm not Adalind anymore" version...

But here's the thing. Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - brandon - 05-21-2019

It was not necessary for Adalind to start crying to show that she was sincere.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)brandon Wrote: It was not necessary for Adalind to start crying to show that she was sincere.

I don't have the deleted scenes so I don't know how sincere she appeared. I do know in season 6, when she apologized, she seemed sincere. However, judging from the lack of response on the forum and Eve's reaction, Adalind does not seem to know how to apologize effectively.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - eric - 05-21-2019

(05-20-2019, 05:31 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Adalind's apology ended up as a deleted scene in episode 510.
Thanks,, I normally don't watch deleted scenes, since I think the writers, directors and editors did not consider them as important to the story arc. I would have considered it important enough to put in the show, but hey, I'm just a rabid fan.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - N_grimm - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 05:36 AM)irukandji Wrote:
(05-21-2019, 04:51 AM)N_grimm Wrote: At least she didn't go for the "I'm not Adalind anymore" version...

But here's the thing. Making Juliette into someone else was the only way to keep Adalind in the series.

You mean the only way to make Nick and Adalind a couple? Adalind and Juliette where both in the show in the first 4 seasons. This is fiction, so I suppose it would be possible to have millions of alterative storylines.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 05-21-2019

(05-21-2019, 10:50 AM)N_grimm Wrote: You mean the only way to make Nick and Adalind a couple? Adalind and Juliette where both in the show in the first 4 seasons. This is fiction, so I suppose it would be possible to have millions of alterative storylines.

No, actually I was talking about keeping Adalind in the series. I doubt anyone here can envision Adalind as soldier for HW.


RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - brandon - 05-21-2019

I think she would have been more useful as a witch than as a soldier of HW.