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+--- Thread: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? (/Thread-what-was-the-worst-betrayal-that-happened-during-the-show)
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - Tish - 08-01-2020
(08-01-2020, 04:51 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The issue with calling the snatching of Diana from Adalind a betrayal is that Adalind really had no reason to believe she should trust any of the people who did it. Sean had already abandoned her once, and she should have realized that if not for the baby, Nick and the scoobies had more reason to want to behead her than to help her in any way.Which in my book would make it a bigger betrayal. Because she trusted these people KNOWING what had happened in her dealings with them in the past -- but she's has to trust someone or her and Diana are dead. Think about it when she finally comes clean with Nick about being pregnant with Kelly she is living in fear that once they get what they want out of her (Juliet "fixed") that they were going to dump her and possibly the baby somewhere. She even goes through a form of that when Eve shows up -- she's positive that Nick is going to dump her to the roadside. Nick has to reassure her that she is not being dumped anywhere. Until season six when we see Nick impersonate Sean to get her back - and hear the conversation that he went crazy without her there -- she doesn't feel secure in her position in Nick or the other's lives.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 08-01-2020
Tish wrote: Soooo instead of looking at the actual definition of betrayal because the actual word is not stated it's not betrayal. Yeah...makes a lot of sense to me. What happed was textbook betrayal. Instead of saying the words they actually showed it to us via screen. That's even harder to ignore or deny. But I'll give it to you...you are doing a good job of doing that.
That is not entirely correct. What I said was that Adalind doesn't know that Nick and company betrayed her at the time Diana is kidnapped. She was lied to and led to believe that the royals took baby Diana. You know this. Furthermore, I also said that it's only later when Adalind finds out that Nick and company kidnapped Diana that she accuses members of the team of doing so. You know that as well.
At no time at all did Adalind admit to feeling betrayed. That is much different than Juliette's betrayal. Nick figures out who betrayed Kelly and right off states it was someone she trusted. He later accuses Eve of setting his mother up.
I know you feel this is a betrayal, hence your words, "Which in my book would make it a bigger betrayal". That is your opinion. Not everyone agrees with that because they see the kidnapping as something more than a betrayal of Adalind.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - Tish - 08-01-2020
(08-01-2020, 05:35 PM)irukandji Wrote: Tish wrote: Soooo instead of looking at the actual definition of betrayal because the actual word is not stated it's not betrayal. Yeah...makes a lot of sense to me. What happed was textbook betrayal. Instead of saying the words they actually showed it to us via screen. That's even harder to ignore or deny. But I'll give it to you...you are doing a good job of doing that.What does at the time have to do with the initial question you had to begin with? Doesn't matter if she is aware at the time or not --- WE are aware as the audience -- we can judge whether it's a betrayal or not because we are outside looking in.
That is not entirely correct. What I said was that Adalind doesn't know that Nick and company betrayed her at the time Diana is kidnapped. She was lied to and led to believe that the royals took baby Diana. You know this. Furthermore, I also said that it's only later when Adalind finds out that Nick and company kidnapped Diana that she accuses members of the team of doing so. You know that as well.
At no time at all did Adalind admit to feeling betrayed. That is much different than Juliette's betrayal. Nick figures out who betrayed Kelly and right off states it was someone she trusted. He later accuses Eve of setting his mother up.
I know you feel this is a betrayal, hence your words, "Which in my book would make it a bigger betrayal". That is your opinion. Not everyone agrees with that because they see the kidnapping as something more than a betrayal of Adalind.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - irukandji - 08-01-2020
(08-01-2020, 06:27 PM)Tish Wrote:You said it yourself. People make things up to match what they want to see. In your case, you see a betrayal. But not everyone is going to see it your way and they would not be wrong. There have been fans who have stated they see it as an effort to protect Diana from falling into evil. Others have seen the kidnapping as a way of saving both Adalind and Sean from being murdered, as I stated before.(08-01-2020, 05:35 PM)irukandji Wrote: Tish wrote: Soooo instead of looking at the actual definition of betrayal because the actual word is not stated it's not betrayal. Yeah...makes a lot of sense to me. What happed was textbook betrayal. Instead of saying the words they actually showed it to us via screen. That's even harder to ignore or deny. But I'll give it to you...you are doing a good job of doing that.What does at the time have to do with the initial question you had to begin with? Doesn't matter if she is aware at the time or not --- WE are aware as the audience -- we can judge whether it's a betrayal or not because we are outside looking in.
That is not entirely correct. What I said was that Adalind doesn't know that Nick and company betrayed her at the time Diana is kidnapped. She was lied to and led to believe that the royals took baby Diana. You know this. Furthermore, I also said that it's only later when Adalind finds out that Nick and company kidnapped Diana that she accuses members of the team of doing so. You know that as well.
At no time at all did Adalind admit to feeling betrayed. That is much different than Juliette's betrayal. Nick figures out who betrayed Kelly and right off states it was someone she trusted. He later accuses Eve of setting his mother up.
I know you feel this is a betrayal, hence your words, "Which in my book would make it a bigger betrayal". That is your opinion. Not everyone agrees with that because they see the kidnapping as something more than a betrayal of Adalind.
You are correct. The audience is the one who judges, who makes things up to match what they want to see.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - dicappatore - 08-01-2020
(08-01-2020, 04:51 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The issue with calling the snatching of Diana from Adalind a betrayal is that Adalind really had no reason to believe she should trust any of the people who did it. Sean had already abandoned her once, and she should have realized that if not for the baby, Nick and the scoobies had more reason to want to behead her than to help her in any way.IMO, Adalind track record with the choices she made with Diana before she was born deserved to have her child taken away, from her. As I recall, Diana's dad, Sean was instrumental on the kidnapping of his daughter. The bigger betrayal would have been if they let Diana stay with Adalind and then, eventually ended up with the Royals.
What changed my opinion of Adalind as a fit mother, was her behavior after the birth of Kelly. Who knows, maybe the suppression potion she tested, before their attempt to give it to Juliette, added to her change. What ever it was, the Adalind we ended up with was not that same Adalind when she lost Diana.
Like I said, during Adalind's earlier state of mind, NOT kidnapping Diana, would have been the much bigger betrayal. Anyway, IMO, either betrayals don't even come close to the much bigger betrayal of Juliette to her, almost MIL Kelly and Nick.
RE: what was the worst betrayal that happened during the show? - Tish - 08-03-2020
(08-01-2020, 07:00 PM)dicappatore Wrote:I agree with you on most everything. I can see where looking at past history, it's better to take Diana away using Adelind's track record to be influenced by whoever has the most power in her life. She doesn't seem to come out of that until after Kelly is born and she understands that sometimes the people with the most obvious power are not the best people to be allied with. Which accounts for her helping Nick and the gang out at the end of Season 5 and beginning of season 6.(08-01-2020, 04:51 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The issue with calling the snatching of Diana from Adalind a betrayal is that Adalind really had no reason to believe she should trust any of the people who did it. Sean had already abandoned her once, and she should have realized that if not for the baby, Nick and the scoobies had more reason to want to behead her than to help her in any way.IMO, Adalind track record with the choices she made with Diana before she was born deserved to have her child taken away, from her. As I recall, Diana's dad, Sean was instrumental on the kidnapping of his daughter. The bigger betrayal would have been if they let Diana stay with Adalind and then, eventually ended up with the Royals.
What changed my opinion of Adalind as a fit mother, was her behavior after the birth of Kelly. Who knows, maybe the suppression potion she tested, before their attempt to give it to Juliette, added to her change. What ever it was, the Adalind we ended up with was not that same Adalind when she lost Diana.
Like I said, during Adalind's earlier state of mind, NOT kidnapping Diana, would have been the much bigger betrayal. Anyway, IMO, either betrayals don't even come close to the much bigger betrayal of Juliette to her, almost MIL Kelly and Nick.