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Z and the Child Bride - irukandji - 12-21-2018

There has been previous discussion on Z taking a child bride as part of prophecy. The series hinted that Z's child bride would be Diana. Yet, it seems odd he would choose her.

So why someone like Diana? Now before anyone goes on to state she's the most powerful, most unusual, and the greatest golden snowflake that's come along since the beginning of time, consider this.

The only thing Diana really has going for her is her powers. Z isn't going to let her retain them. She'd be stripped of power and be just like any other mortal.

The other thing is this. Diana has been raised in a relatively calm environment up to the point that she's returned to Renard. After that, she's got her parents and baby brother, and when we see her, she acts for the most part like any other child.

So what did Z see in this child that would interest him? Could he have looked into her future and saw a woman who was predisposed to evil?

For that matter, would he have married himself to a child or waited until she had grown into a woman? After all, what is time to a being like Z?


RE: Z and the Child Bride - brandon - 12-21-2018

Since when do you think she acts like a child?
1) She could not save Kelly or the couple who took care of her.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-21-2018

I presumed it was a mating thing, mixing his genes with those of the uber hexenbiest.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - syscrash - 12-21-2018

I always thought that the contract and Z where connected. There was nothing that showed that the contract had anything to do with the Royals. So exactly what was the purpose of the contract. If Adalind had not been after the keys she would have not lost her powers. If she had not lost her powers she would have not needed to sign the contract. We now know the keys lead to the stick which lead to Z. The previous post asked an important question. Why Diana, the prophecy speaks of a child bride. What makes more sense it could have been any child or that it required a special child. If it required a special child, the chain of events that created and placed Diana in Z's path is long.

There are connections, even if it is making events fit a theory. True the writers never directly connect the contract to any events. They do make a direct connection between the keys and the stick. To me the thing that explains Diana is either the contract or the ritual or both together. But we also don't really know if Diana is really that unusual. It is stated that she is powerful, but that is also said about Eve. No one every expresses that either Diana or Eve are strange. No one seemed amazed at how fast Diana was growing. They acted is if that was normal. No one questioned how Juliette became a hexenbiest. They acted as if that can happen. We also don't know if the stick and the prophecy are connected. The writers never make it clear exactly why Z was able to cross over. They hinted that it was a Grimm crossing over that made it possible. They also sighted the prophecy saying the Z was coming to claim a bride. They never made it clear did Z cross over for the stick or for Diana. The way it was written you could have had one without the other. They showed blood magic opened the doorway. This meant Diana could have went there and Z did not have to come here to fulfill the prophecy.

AS for Diana with Z. Mommy Kelly warned that depending on how Diana was raised would determine what she became. She was not shown as evil, but she was no stranger to using violence. The way she was shown able to adapt to her situation. It would not be hard to see her working with Z. Even in the last episode was Diana under Z's control, or did she choose to be on his side. In every other situation, Diana was shown to go along with where or who she was with. Consider she went from ADalind to Kelly no objection. Even though she rejected being with victor. She goes from Kelly to the Royal's no problem. Yet she rejects the King so we know she likes some and hates others. She also goes from HW to BC. She has no problem being with BC. She only shows and objection to those that threaten her parents. Using all of these transfers to establish a pattern. Diana working with Z fits the pattern. If you ask what about her parents. Lets count. She left Adalind. She saw Kelly killed. she saw the HW caregivers killed. yet not once did she show this had any affect on her. So why would leaving her parents this time be any different. when she was kidnapped she showed if she did not want to be somewhere she had the power to leave. Also why would you think Z had the ability to remove someone powers, plus why would he. Diana showed she was on his side near the end.

What I have come to understand about the show. The writers leave a lot to the viewers imagination. Letting the viewer see the story they want to see. This make a theory neither right or wrong.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - irukandji - 12-22-2018

(12-21-2018, 08:02 PM)syscrash Wrote: The previous post asked an important question. Why Diana, the prophecy speaks of a child bride. What makes more sense it could have been any child or that it required a special child.

(12-21-2018, 08:02 PM)syscrash Wrote: They hinted that it was a Grimm crossing over that made it possible. They also sighted the prophecy saying the Z was coming to claim a bride. They never made it clear did Z cross over for the stick or for Diana. The way it was written you could have had one without the other.

You know what bothers me about this prophecy? Usually there is more to it than an entity taking over the world and then taking on a child bride. A prophecy like this that spells one of impending doom would also include a ray of hope. In other words, someone who will defeat the entity at great cost and take back the world/restore it to its former glory.

Technically speaking, Nick would have been the one to fulfill that prophecy. Yet, nothing is mentioned of him.

(12-21-2018, 08:02 PM)syscrash Wrote: AS for Diana with Z. Mommy Kelly warned that depending on how Diana was raised would determine what she became.

I take Kelly's statement of Diana's destiny with a grain of salt. For one thing, it seems her entire actions from the moment she set foot in Portland were aimed at removing Diana from Adalind and taking control of the baby.

For another, her statement makes no sense in regard to Z. Diana was not raised by evil people and if we're to believe her surroundings, she was allowed to exist as a child. I can't speak for certain, but it would seem to me there was a mother and father figure present in the safe house in order to care for her. I think your question, asking if Diana would work with Z is a very valid one. If that is the case, then her surroundings or parental figures would have no bearing on a destiny for good or for evil.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - Hell Rell - 12-22-2018

(12-21-2018, 01:56 PM)irukandji Wrote: There has been previous discussion on Z taking a child bride as part of prophecy. The series hinted that Z's child bride would be Diana. Yet, it seems odd he would choose her.

So why someone like Diana? Now before anyone goes on to state she's the most powerful, most unusual, and the greatest golden snowflake that's come along since the beginning of time, consider this.

Unfortunately, this is probably an accurate description of Diana. Believe me, I don't like it any more than you do. Especially considering that I thought she turned out to be somewhat of a dud. The special snowflake baby is one of my least favorite things about the show.

(12-22-2018, 12:30 AM)irukandji Wrote: You know what bothers me about this prophecy? Usually there is more to it than an entity taking over the world and then taking on a child bride. A prophecy like this that spells one of impending doom would also include a ray of hope. In other words, someone who will defeat the entity at great cost and take back the world/restore it to its former glory.

Technically speaking, Nick would have been the one to fulfill that prophecy. Yet, nothing is mentioned of him.

This is true that there usually is a ray of light in a prophecy. I'm reminded of the The Matrix or OUaT for something more recent. There was one person that was considered a savior of sorts.

The difference between the two was Neo making a very important choice while OUaT had Rumple who purposely setup the curse for Emma to break it one day. Later on, Emma and Rumple helped to get everyone's happy endings because both good and evil did the right thing. Yeah, it was a really weird show.

Ultimately, I do think Z chose her because of her power. He wouldn't worry about absorbing her power since she still wasn't capable of defeating him and he planned on having the staff. A special bride for a special being.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-22-2018

If the arrival of Z was truly destiny, then everyone who had even the smallest part in bringing about the sequence of events was connected. For example, the people who made all those mirrors.

The message of the prophecy was that Z would come on a specified date and that he would be seeking to acquire his child bride and to remake the world (which from our POV would be destroying it). It was probably meant as a warning, and not as a prediction that his success at achieving his goals was destined.

Diana the uber-hexenchild turned out to be something of a dud partially because everyone who had a hand in raising and teaching her (Kelly, her HW babysitters and finally Adalind) apparently did everything they could to mold her into something that was as close to a normal child as they could manage, rather than into their ultimate weapon. Imagine baby Superman in the 1930s being found and raised by Quakers vs being found and raised by fanatic Nazis.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - Henry of green - 12-22-2018

(12-21-2018, 08:02 PM)syscrash Wrote: I always thought that the contract and Z where connected. There was nothing that showed that the contract had anything to do with the Royals. So exactly what was the purpose of the contract. If Adalind had not been after the keys she would have not lost her powers. If she had not lost her powers she would have not needed to sign the contract. We now know the keys lead to the stick which lead to Z. The previous post asked an important question. Why Diana, the prophecy speaks of a child bride. What makes more sense it could have been any child or that it required a special child. If it required a special child, the chain of events that created and placed Diana in Z's path is long.

There are connections, even if it is making events fit a theory. True the writers never directly connect the contract to any events. They do make a direct connection between the keys and the stick. To me the thing that explains Diana is either the contract or the ritual or both together. But we also don't really know if Diana is really that unusual. It is stated that she is powerful, but that is also said about Eve. No one every expresses that either Diana or Eve are strange. No one seemed amazed at how fast Diana was growing. They acted is if that was normal. No one questioned how Juliette became a hexenbiest. They acted as if that can happen. We also don't know if the stick and the prophecy are connected. The writers never make it clear exactly why Z was able to cross over. They hinted that it was a Grimm crossing over that made it possible. They also sighted the prophecy saying the Z was coming to claim a bride. They never made it clear did Z cross over for the stick or for Diana. The way it was written you could have had one without the other. They showed blood magic opened the doorway. This meant Diana could have went there and Z did not have to come here to fulfill the prophecy.

AS for Diana with Z. Mommy Kelly warned that depending on how Diana was raised would determine what she became. She was not shown as evil, but she was no stranger to using violence. The way she was shown able to adapt to her situation. It would not be hard to see her working with Z. Even in the last episode was Diana under Z's control, or did she choose to be on his side. In every other situation, Diana was shown to go along with where or who she was with. Consider she went from ADalind to Kelly no objection. Even though she rejected being with victor. She goes from Kelly to the Royal's no problem. Yet she rejects the King so we know she likes some and hates others. She also goes from HW to BC. She has no problem being with BC. She only shows and objection to those that threaten her parents. Using all of these transfers to establish a pattern. Diana working with Z fits the pattern. If you ask what about her parents. Lets count. She left Adalind. She saw Kelly killed. she saw the HW caregivers killed. yet not once did she show this had any affect on her. So why would leaving her parents this time be any different. when she was kidnapped she showed if she did not want to be somewhere she had the power to leave. Also why would you think Z had the ability to remove someone powers, plus why would he. Diana showed she was on his side near the end.

What I have come to understand about the show. The writers leave a lot to the viewers imagination. Letting the viewer see the story they want to see. This make a theory neither right or wrong.

I agree with some of this however, When Zerstorer came through the Mirror he showed very little interest in Diana, his main focus was convincing Nick to hand over the stick, he followed Nick every were he went from the precinct to the spice shop then to the cabin after Nick arrived there with the stick. On the other hand Zerstorer didn’t follow Diana anywhere he just put her under is influence after he followed Nick to the cabin.

Before Zerstorer showed up Diana appeared truly terrified of Zerstorer even to the point of tears so her going to Zerstorer isn’t as straightforward as your making out as usual your not looking at the full context.

Diana didn’t choose to go with Zerstorer of her on free will according to the writers ,who claimed in a post show interview she fell under his thrall.


TVLINE | Diana goes pretty willingly with Zerstörer when he comes to get her, which is a change from her fear earlier in the episode. At that point, does she have any inkling of what’s going to happen regarding the rewind? It seems like an abrupt difference in her reaction to him.

GREENWALT | She’s under his thrall. And there is a line that I always knew we would cut, and we should have cut, but there is a line [Laughs] where she looks at Renard, who’s dying, and she says, regarding her and Zerstörer, “We’re going to have a hundred babies!” [Laughs] We thought that might have been a bridge too far, and it certainly was.

KOUF | But all of this was to show that she was so much under his thrall that she had no idea what she was in for.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - brandon - 12-22-2018

I like "Lucifer" not to be blond.


RE: Z and the Child Bride - irukandji - 12-22-2018

(12-22-2018, 09:15 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Ultimately, I do think Z chose her because of her power. He wouldn't worry about absorbing her power since she still wasn't capable of defeating him and he planned on having the staff. A special bride for a special being.

Generally in these devil takes a wife scenarios, there's something about the future wife that makes her unique among women, and so unique to him. It seems that that uniqueness is something that can be used against him, and so is irresistible. If you have read The Stand, Nadine is the character that comes to mind.

Since Z is taking an attitude of "meh" toward Diana's powers, then her powers are of no interest to him. There has to be something about the girl herself that he finds unique. I know the creative team never delved into this, so it's pure speculation here.

What I find interesting is that Z was able to place Diana under his control, yet the most he could do against Eve was take her powers, and eventually kill her. What would make her mindset different than that of Diana?