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+--- Thread: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid (/Thread-The-Kessler-sisters-when-Nick-was-a-kid)
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-23-2018
According to Nick's character profile, he was born in 1982. If Kelly was the same age as Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, she was 24 when Nick was born. Kelly told Nick that Marie and her father took her on her first hunt when she was 18. So Kelly had at most four or five years as a Grimm before she met and married Reed and had Nick and apparently became a mom living in the burbs.
The Kelly who eventually showed up in Portland was the result of 18 years of living out in the cold. And 18 years of reflecting on the past and accepting or maybe just rationalizing her choices.
By the time Nick got to hear his mom's story, he was up to his neck in deceiving his girlfriend and his partner about his grimm-ness, and it probably made way more sense to him than it would have a year earlier.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - dicappatore - 09-23-2018
(09-23-2018, 12:08 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: According to Nick's character profile, he was born in 1982. If Kelly was the same age as Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, she was 24 when Nick was born. Kelly told Nick that Marie and her father took her on her first hunt when she was 18. So Kelly had at most four or five years as a Grimm before she met and married Reed and had Nick and apparently became a mom living in the burbs.
The Kelly who eventually showed up in Portland was the result of 18 years of living out in the cold. And 18 years of reflecting on the past and accepting or maybe just rationalizing her choices.
By the time Nick got to hear his mom's story, he was up to his neck in deceiving his girlfriend and his partner about his grimm-ness, and it probably made way more sense to him than it would have a year earlier.
I am a simple man so, how about we do some simple math problems. When the series starts, Nick is in his late 30's, lets say, 38. She dumped him on Marie when he was 12 or 14, I forgot but doesn't create a problem with the estimated years in questions. Last time I did math, 38 take away 12 or 14 equals 26 or 24. So your 18 years of reflection is way off.
Add in the 12 or 14 years Nick was living with her Plus the years she was a Grimm before Nick was born, equates to around 40 years PLUS, she had been a Grimm. If I am off, add in the years she was a Grimm before she was married and had Nick and it takes her well past 40 years she was a Grimm and well past 18 years she was on her own.
BTW, As I recall, and I could be wrong. Kelly got her Grimm at puberty, which only adds more years, closer to 50 years of her Grimm-ess.
Want to verify my math? If she was 24 when she had Nick and Nick is around 38? That makes Kelly over 60 years old. If I am correct on her getting Grimm-ed out at puberty, she had been a Grimm for over 50 years.
Lest not forget, she was killed in the end of S4, adds 4 more years to my math of her being a Grimm and her age of around 66 when she was killed. If my estimates are wrong, please chime in with the welcomed corrections. I might be off by a year or 2 but not much more. I am all ears.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-23-2018
Your numbers are off by 10 years.
Nick was born in 1982. That makes him 29 at the start of S01 in 2011. MEM was born in 1958. Using that for Kelly makes her 53. Add up to a year for ages in "Bad Teeth" at the end of S01 in 2012.
The Rhinebeck "accident" was in 1994. 2012 minus 1994 = 18 yesrs.
Calculating Grimm dates gets complicated after that because no time passes during the months-long hiatuses.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - irukandji - 09-23-2018
Kelly only suspected who came after her that night, but she didn't know who "they" were. If she had, she wouldn't have admitted to Nick that she had a lot of enemies.
Would she have had a lot of enemies had she simply given up grimmhood to raise her son? Not likely.
I don't think Nick ever rationalized his mother's deceptions with those of his own because the series never brought out Kelly's deception as something to be questioned. Instead she's a heroine because she's a grimm and had to protect him. Nick is very much enamored with her, and so, is never going to question why she did what she did. The show threw a bone at the audience by having her experience some regret over her actions. But if you notice, she isn't so guilt laden that she apologizes or attempts to make up for what she did to him.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - dicappatore - 09-23-2018
(09-23-2018, 04:41 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Your numbers are off by 10 years.
Nick was born in 1982. That makes him 29 at the start of S01 in 2011. MEM was born in 1958. Using that for Kelly makes her 53. Add up to a year for ages in "Bad Teeth" at the end of S01 in 2012.
The Rhinebeck "accident" was in 1994. 2012 minus 1994 = 18 yesrs.
Calculating Grimm dates gets complicated after that because no time passes during the months-long hiatuses.
Ok so I got his age wrong. Where I got he was in his late 30's at the beginning of the show, I don't know. Going by memory and I guess I am wrong. So lets say he was 29 or 30 when his mother shows up. According to your estimations of being 24 when Nick was born we add 29 or 30 makes her, like you said 53 or 54. By the time of her death at the end of season 4, brings her into her late 50's. I guess were I still differ is when she got her Grimm. Like I said before, as I recall it, she was in her early teens instead of 18.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-23-2018
(09-23-2018, 07:23 AM)dicappatore Wrote: I guess were I still differ is when she got her Grimm. Like I said before, as I recall it, she was in her early teens instead of 18.
Yes, Kelly came into her Grimm earlier than 18. But Marie and her father didn't take het out to do anything with it until she was 18. I would expect there was weapons and fight training before that, and if the Kesslers were acquainted with any wesen they considered "good" maybe she was exposed to woges in non-dangerous encounters. But actual "real world Grimming" didn't start until 18.
(09-23-2018, 07:16 AM)irukandji Wrote: Kelly only suspected who came after her that night, but she didn't know who "they" were. If she had, she wouldn't have admitted to Nick that she had a lot of enemies.
Would she have had a lot of enemies had she simply given up grimmhood to raise her son? Not likely.
I don't think Nick ever rationalized his mother's deceptions with those of his own because the series never brought out Kelly's deception as something to be questioned.
We don't know if Kelly, Marie or anyone else knew who "they" were that night. We only know that 18 years later both Farley Kolt and Kelly seemed to know who they were.
We don'r know whether Kelly had "a lot of enemies" before that night. The ones who killed Reed and Gina didn't even know enough about Kelly to recognize that Gina wasn't her. It's possible that the enemies Kelly told Nick about were all made during the 18 years since.
I don't think Nick consciously rationalized Kelly's deception. I think his life had become so immersed in maintaining his own secret that he was already conditioned to think her reasons made sense by the time he heard them. What Kelly had done was more or less the same thing Marie had been advising him to do when she told him he should break up with Juliette.
Kelly would have been an unsympathetic character if she hadn't felt at least a small bit of regret at the years she'd missed with her son. But you'll notice it didn't stop her from taking the coins and leaving again.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - brandon - 09-23-2018
Somewhat selfish the decision of not raising your child.
Was good and too bad- I think-.
Farley arrived first and assure Nick that S. M.was the killer.
Nick did not say anthing to his mother.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-23-2018
Farley told Nick that Marquesa was "one of many involved." Kelly told him that Kimura was the last person alive who knew who had betrayed them. I think that tells us she already knew who Marquesa was and what had happened to him.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - tscchope - 09-23-2018
(09-23-2018, 07:16 AM)irukandji Wrote: Kelly only suspected who came after her that night, but she didn't know who "they" were. If she had, she wouldn't have admitted to Nick that she had a lot of enemies.
Would she have had a lot of enemies had she simply given up grimmhood to raise her son? Not likely.
I don't think Nick ever rationalized his mother's deceptions with those of his own because the series never brought out Kelly's deception as something to be questioned. Instead she's a heroine because she's a grimm and had to protect him. Nick is very much enamored with her, and so, is never going to question why she did what she did. The show threw a bone at the audience by having her experience some regret over her actions. But if you notice, she isn't so guilt laden that she apologizes or attempts to make up for what she did to him.
Of course Kelly would have had the same enemies had she given up her Grimm to raise Nick. Just as Nick still had the same enemies after he lost his Grimm. They were still going to come after him.
Nick was trying to take that guy alive. I think it was Renard who told Nick he was the last guy still alive involved in the attack or it might have been through Juliette's contact with the investigating officer. I'm curious as to why Nick had never done that in the year she worked on the force. It seems most logical to do that . Then Kelly just came and killed him.
The police report was falsified. We know therefore that Kelly had someone inside the police or Reed did. We don't know that anyone actually died. We never learnt who the betrayer was nor who was after them. It doesn't seem all that likely that the hirers would have wanted the head of a non-Grimm. Anyone who saw "Kelly's" would have known it wasn't her. Likewise, Nick never changed his name. Seems odd. Neither did Marie.Equally odd. It suggests that Marie was known to be the more lethal of the sisters. Kenneth showed no desire to ship Kelly's head back to Vienna after he and Juliette dispatched her.
Renard seems to have known who Nick was, long before Nick found his powers. Of course, he protected Nick for his own reasons, but protect him he did.
Kelly was free to hunt the attackers and presumably those behind the attack. Certainly, Renard didn't seem all that surprised to see Kelly still alive.
Nick didn't deceive. He didn't rationalize his mother's actions. Nick was much too busy to have time to do that. Kelly didn't give Nick any explanation. Kelly died before they ever got to have that chat. There was a great deal of backstory for Nick to discover. Why would enemies wait until Nick was 12 before seeking his family out? Why would their betrayer wait that long to betray them? Was Marie finally betrayed or did the fact she was being treated for cancer lead the hundjaeger to her. Again, there's something that doesn't make sense in that Nick never mentions travelling around a lot between the ages of 12 and 18, when he would presumably have gone to college and entered the Portland PD.
Nick seems so uninterested in finding out anything about his parents that it would seem to suggest he's under a spell. One struck me about Elizabeth helping Nick get his Grimm back, other than Elizabeth helping at all is that she wold have to calibrate the spell exactly to Nick. That reinforces the idea she's been involved in administering spell laden potions to him in the past.
RE: The Kessler sisters when Nick was a kid - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-23-2018
The killers may not have been Kelly Burkhardt's "enemies," as opposed to hit men hired to get the coins and kill someone they were told was a Grimm who was protecting them.
There was no need for anyone in the police to fake the reports. A couple died in a car crash and were perfunctorily identified as the car's owners. There wouldn't have been much investigation unless there was some sign of foul play or doubt that the bodies found in the car were not the Burkhardts; the only person who might have raised such doubts was Marie, and she wasn't going to do that.
There might very well be some detective in Rhinebeck who's kept a file on the "accident" for years because a missing head isn't something you typically see in a car crash, and the detail about a missing head might be the kind of thing police keep back in case there's a new lead someday. Marie, of course, would have been smart enough to just act surprised and confused about that ("What do you mean my sister's head is missing? How does that happen?")
I think there must originally have been a completely different plan for Renard and Nick that got thrown away pretty quckly after the pilot.