"Juliette's death" - Printable Version

"Juliette's death" - Printable Version

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"Juliette's death" - irukandji - 06-09-2018

Brandon recently wrote in another thread:

Quote:As I think that only Nick and company knew of the death of Juliette and his change, for Juliette's friends would be in Europe or Oceania.

In my opinion, "Juliette's death" was one of the biggest blunders of the entire series because it was handled so poorly. No parents, no grandmother, no friends come to call to ask what happened and Nick didn't inform them of events either.

Nick didn't go down to her clinic and tell them she died. In fact, Nick never reported the death. He perpetrated the hoax that she was still alive. He would have had to so that he could pay licensing and taxes on her car. Adalind, the pauper, had to have something to drive.

We were privy to HW cleaning up the place and Nick deciding to vacate the premises quickly afterwards. Feel free to bring writers' intent into this one. Why did they think sending merry maid service to Nick's house would solve the issue?

RE: "Juliette's death" - Hell Rell - 06-09-2018

This really was a huge blunder in the series. Juliette going missing being completely unnoticed by anyone outside of the gang and HW is really hard to believe. She must've had no family or friends outside of her Fuchsbau pal whom never checked up on each other outside of the episodes we saw.

I remember thinking how weird it was that Nick let Adalind drive Juliette's car. I thought that would've led to a lot of unwanted questions.

RE: "Juliette's death" - New Guy - 06-09-2018

(06-09-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: Brandon recently wrote in another thread:

Quote:As I think that only Nick and company knew of the death of Juliette and his change, for Juliette's friends would be in Europe or Oceania.

In my opinion, "Juliette's death" was one of the biggest blunders of the entire series because it was handled so poorly. No parents, no grandmother, no friends come to call to ask what happened and Nick didn't inform them of events either.

Nick didn't go down to her clinic and tell them she died. In fact, Nick never reported the death. He perpetrated the hoax that she was still alive. He would have had to so that he could pay licensing and taxes on her car. Adalind, the pauper, had to have something to drive.

We were privy to HW cleaning up the place and Nick deciding to vacate the premises quickly afterwards. Feel free to bring writers' intent into this one. Why did they think sending merry maid service to Nick's house would solve the issue?

Hi Iruk,
Très intéressant, M. Poirot.
Was Juliette killed?
http://www.tvguide.com/news/grimm-season-5-premiere/

Quote: . . . it is with the delightful knowledge that Juliette is well and truly dead. . . . The best decision the writers made was to turn her evil enough through Hexenbiest-ery that she had to die.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/grimm-creators-finales-surprising-death-795616

Quote: . . .
So… let’s get right to it: Is Juliette really dead?

David Greenwalt: That’s a great question. Now, I think that’s a question that will be--

Jim Kouf: Hell yeah! We can only afford so many people in the fifth year.

Did Juliette's corpse get transformed into Eve?

https://www.christianpost.com/news/grimm-season-5b-spoilers-juliette-rises-from-the-dead-but-now-as-eve-153630/

Quote:Juliette (Bitsie Tulloch) is back, but it will not be the same Juliette that Nick (David Giuntoli) fell in love with. She rises back from the dead, but it will just be her body and her memories that will be back since she is now known as Eve.

RE: "Juliette's death" - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-09-2018

In "Eve of Destruction," Trubel told Nick that she knew Juliette was alive when Chavez and her cleanup crew removed her from the house. So G&K's misdirection notwithstanding, Juliette was never really physically dead.

RE: "Juliette's death" - brandon - 06-09-2018

For Nick and his friends is Juliette dead.
Now is Eve.
What should they say to friends of Juliette?.
There is no body. Put together a plan about who murdered Juliette? . Absurd.
Maybe HW made a good work; send letters to your friends pretending to be Juliette.
I like is teory.

RE: "Juliette's death" - New Guy - 06-09-2018

(06-09-2018, 03:22 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: In "Eve of Destruction," Trubel told Nick that she knew Juliette was alive when Chavez and her cleanup crew removed her from the house. So G&K's misdirection notwithstanding, Juliette was never really physically dead.

Hi Face,
You are correct about Trubel's conversation. It is curious how G&K removed Juliette (Hexenette) and created Eve (FrankenEve).
From:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/The_Grimm_Identity

Quote:. . .
He answers his phone and it's Hank, who tells Nick that he's just checking in on him. Nick tells him that Juliette is dead and that he was drugged.
. . .
Rosalee tells him, "If Juliette's dead, Juliette's dead. Nick wouldn't just make that up, and he certainly wouldn't call and tell us that if it's not true." Rosalee says none of this makes sense. Monroe gets a call from Hank, and Rosalee asks if Juliette is dead. Hank says it sounds like it, but he isn't sure about anything.

Nick has experience with dead people and he believed Juliette was truly dead. Here are more scenes:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Eve_of_Destruction

Quote:. . .
Nick, Hank, Monroe, Renard, and Wu are all in disbelief after briefly seeing who they think was Juliette. ("Wesen Nacht") Renard asks Nick how that could have been Juliette if she was dead, and Nick replies, "Her hair was different, the way she moved was different, but it was her; I know it was her." Wu asks, "So whoever took her body brought her back to life?" Nick tells the others he knows it doesn't make sense, but he can't explain it.
. . .
Nick arrives at the loft, waking Trubel up, and she quickly grabs a knife and stands up. Nick starts yelling at Trubel, demanding her to tell him the truth about Juliette still being alive. Trubel tells Nick that she didn't know for sure that Juliette was still alive, and Nick tells her she's either dead or she isn't. Trubel tells him, "All I know is that she was alive when Chavez took her, but... I didn't know if she was gonna survive what they were gonna do to her." Nick asks what they were going to do to Juliette, and Trubel tells him they were going to break her.
. . .
Nick arrives at a restaurant to meet with Juliette. He goes inside and looks around. He soon finds her sitting in the back. He pauses and looks at her before walking over to her table. He tells her, "I thought you were dead. Oh, Juliette." She tells him she is now called Eve because she is starting over. Nick asks if she thinks it's that easy and she tells him it wasn't. Nick asks, "You want to know what isn't easy? Knowing that you set me up... and that you set up my mother." Eve just looks at him and he asks if she is going to pretend like she doesn't remember. She tells Nick that she remembers everything and that she would have killed him.

The scene with Meisner is also strange:

Quote:A little while later, Juliette woke up, after her injuries had been treated, and Meisner told her, "You're dead, but you don't have to stay that way." Juliette tried to speak, but she was unable to due to her injuries. She signaled Meisner to get closer and tried to grab his neck, but Meisner quickly seized her hand. He smacked her and told her she would learn to focus her rage, if she survived.

What does Meisner mean by telling Juliette "You're dead, but you don't have to stay that way"?
It seems that G&K never resolve the Juliette died issue. Regardless (IMO) Eve was a mistake. I call her FrankenEve to provide some solace to those who were relived when Trubel "killed" her.
N G

RE: "Juliette's death" - syscrash - 06-11-2018

Quote:In my opinion, "Juliette's death" was one of the biggest blunders of the entire series because it was handled so poorly. No parents, no grandmother, no friends come to call to ask what happened and Nick didn't inform them of events either.

Nick didn't go down to her clinic and tell them she died. In fact, Nick never reported the death. He perpetrated the hoax that she was still alive. He would have had to so that he could pay licensing and taxes on her car. Adalind, the pauper, had to have something to drive.

We were privy to HW cleaning up the place and Nick deciding to vacate the premises quickly afterwards. Feel free to bring writers' intent into this one. Why did they think sending merry maid service to Nick's house would solve the issue?

Your reasoning for the plot holes are valid. considering the options the writers had, I think they made a good choice. If nothing else it was very creative. All the things you mentioned would only be written to support the idea that she is dead. The more the writers emphasize Juliette is dead. The more work explaining her return.
Lets start with the initial goal. That goal was to reboot the show. Other shows where creating female super characters. With Eve now Grimm has one. That being the goal Bitsie became the face of the reboot. The writes intent, to be able to transition a characters so Grimm would have a female super character like the other shows. The writers made a big deal during the break that the show was doing a reboot. Grimm went from a weekly crime detective drama WOW with a story arch in the background. The last two seasons the show was about the story arch and the weekly case was there only to support the story arch. Just like the other shows who went from a different villain each week to a master villain. Grimm went from WOW to dealing with BC and then dealing with zestorer. .

Quote:There are more threads, but no conclusion.

The show explained the bolts had tranquilizers. Trubel told Eve she was not trying to kill her. Even though she would have. There was nothing in the show that acknowledged or indicated that Eve was the result of resurrection. People have been trying to draw inference to prove that resurrection could have been involved. Of course these statements ignore what Trubel said. Every argument will eventual will post where Nick she she was dead as proof that she was dead and the writers intent was that she was dead. But the minute that you reply with how the group said Nick I thought you said she was dead. Followed by Nick not being sure. This is followed by the how and why, someone made it look like Juliette was dead. Following the entire path shows she was not dead.

you also quote the writers

Quote:So… let’s get right to it: Is Juliette really dead?

David Greenwalt: That’s a great question. Now, I think that’s a question that will be--

Jim Kouf: Hell yeah! We can only afford so many people in the fifth year.

Yet you do not include we learn that the show makes the point that Juliette is metaphorically dead. Eve even says I wish you had got a chance to bury her.

But this is just another one of the cases where you get arguments where people are drawing an inference to prove a position. Against the statements in the show that disprove it.

Quote:What does Meisner mean by telling Juliette "You're dead, but you don't have to stay that way"?

Before you posted that statement you posted a number of lines where Nick thought Juliette was dead. He even told those he knew Juliette was dead. Would it not make more sense that Meisner was talking about her not having to stay dead to the group, considering that her training made here able to go back to the group. Considering if she was still Juliette with the anger she would have still been metaphorically dead to the group. She would not be welcomed back like. Isn't it more likely that the interpretation of "You're dead" would reference what actually happened. Being accepted back into the group she was no longer dead to them. As opposed to your wanting us to think Meisner was talking to a dead person that tried to slap him. I know this is fantasy but Juliette was awake when Meisner said "You're dead". Since we now know they never acknowledged talking to the dead, it must be a metaphor.

RE: "Juliette's death" - New Guy - 06-12-2018

(06-11-2018, 05:51 PM)syscrash Wrote: Before you posted that statement you posted a number of lines where Nick thought Juliette was dead. He even told those he knew Juliette was dead. Would it not make more sense that Meisner was talking about her not having to stay dead to the group, considering that her training made here able to go back to the group. Considering if she was still Juliette with the anger she would have still been metaphorically dead to the group. She would not be welcomed back like. Isn't it more likely that the interpretation of "You're dead" would reference what actually happened. Being accepted back into the group she was no longer dead to them. As opposed to your wanting us to think Meisner was talking to a dead person that tried to slap him. I know this is fantasy but Juliette was awake when Meisner said "You're dead". Since we now know they never acknowledged talking to the dead, it must be a metaphor.

Syscrash,
Where did Meisner say Juliette was just "metaphorically" dead? When did G&K say her death was a metaphor, not literal?
Did you get Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm to give an opinion?
Are you also a metaphor?

N G

RE: "Juliette's death" - syscrash - 06-12-2018

Quote:Where did Meisner say Juliette was just "metaphorically" dead? When did G&K say her death was a metaphor, not literal?
Did you get Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm to give an opinion?
Are you also a metaphor? Big Grin

By Meisner telling someone that is moving that they are dead, we know it was not meant to be literal.

RE: "Juliette's death" - New Guy - 06-12-2018

(06-12-2018, 03:32 PM)syscrash Wrote:
Quote:Where did Meisner say Juliette was just "metaphorically" dead? When did G&K say her death was a metaphor, not literal?
Did you get Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm to give an opinion?
Are you also a metaphor? Big Grin
By Meisner telling someone that is moving that they are dead, we know it was not meant to be literal.

Frankenstein the Metaphor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c
Musical Metaphor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaEzT5MusFs
Cool

N G