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+--- Thread: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human (/Thread-Nick-s-obsession-demoting-Juliette-to-normal-human)
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - brandon - 06-23-2018
hey wanted to help her but Juliette was already beyond madness.
the state of his mind was madness, hate,
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - Hell Rell - 06-23-2018
This is just a retread of an old debate. Rosalee was not going to force Juliette to take the potion. Does anyone honestly believe she would? Saving the only potion they had does not equate to her deciding to force Juliette into taking it.
On another note, the first act of aggression has already been discussed as well. Juliette shook the shop with everyone in it. Why is that not considered an act of aggression but Rosalee lunging towards the potion is? That already happened before Juliette tossed her across the room.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - dicappatore - 06-23-2018
This rehashed idiotic argument some are trying to make about Juliette's aggression was all about her wanting to destroy the potion as she destroyed the trailer. She went there with no intentions to cooperate. She wasn't just happy with refusing to take the potion. It was about rubbing it in their face to not only refuse to drink it but to destroy it.
It was nothing about her being threaten by the gang. No one forced her to go there, no one forced her to drink it. If you review what occurred before she got there, check out what took place before she shows up at the spice shop.
Here are some facts these fans can't face up to. She was being played by Kenneth like a fine Vienna violin. He was telling her when not to answer the phone. When to answer the phone and when she could go to the Spice Shop. You'll forgot when Ken gives her the go-ahead to go to them.
So much for this strong female superhero these contributors love to glorify. She was having her strings pulled by Kenneth, a third rate arse-kisser royal nephew-prince-wanna-be. At least, Adalind was being played by Sean, a direct Royal bastard offspring of the king himself.
Some of her fans just can't accept these facts and hide behind a curtain of expressing opinions. Express on all you want. When I re-watch those episodes I still see what I saw the first time I viewed those scenes. All the postings, re-hashing and BS ranting on these threads won't change or re-edit the scenes and dialogue, as it was originally broadcasted.
I still see a pathetic immature child with powers much like a little girl let loose in a candy store. She was being played and used by the same Royals responsible for most of her current predicament. The scoobies and Nick, cared more and longer for her well being than any of the royals living or dead and you'll are so blind, you are all in denial.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - irukandji - 06-23-2018
(06-23-2018, 09:33 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: On another note, the first act of aggression has already been discussed as well. Juliette shook the shop with everyone in it. Why is that not considered an act of aggression but Rosalee lunging towards the potion is? That already happened before Juliette tossed her across the room.
Actually, I don't recall anyone stating that the lunge was the very, very, very first act of aggression. I also don't recall anyone disagreeing that Juliette's telekenetic shaking of the spice shop was an act of aggression.
I said Rosalee's lunge toward Juliette could have been viewed as an act of aggression by Juliette, but it was Juliette who attacked first, there's no question about that.
(06-23-2018, 09:33 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: This is just a retread of an old debate. Rosalee was not going to force Juliette to take the potion. Does anyone honestly believe she would? Saving the only potion they had does not equate to her deciding to force Juliette into taking it.
Uh, yeah, there are those who do. The question of why she would risk so much to recover a jar of potion is one indication to me that if Juliette didn't take it and Rosalee could save it, the scoobies would find a way to make her take it.
Just what did you think Rosalee was going to do with it if she had managed to catch it?
The second is the alternative if she didn't take the potion and that came from Nick himself. Juliette had already smashed the potion and asks the the question, "when are you all going to learn I like who I am?"
Instead of Nick applying his usual grimm logic and saying he gets it, you know how he replies. He answers, "well we don't".
Yet that's not even taken into consideration as a threat at all. I keep reading these statements that Juliette was free to make the choice of going to the spice shop or not go to the spice shop. But yet no one states anything about why the scoobies themselves continued to escalate the situation by refusing to let her leave the spice shop when it was obvious no one was going to make her do anything.
Yes she shook the spice shop and yes she threw Rosalee across the room. Why didn't Nick, Hank, and Monroe just tell her to get out at that point? Why did they take it to the extreme and threaten her with her life just because she didn't want to take their potion? By that point it was gone and none of them were going to defeat her. But they wouldn't let her just go.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-24-2018
When Juliette first went hexenbiest, her #1 priority was getting rid of it and getting "her life back." My guess is that Nick and the scoobies were operating on the belief that if they could remove the hexenbiest she would become "normal" again. I'd call that self delusion and denial, if not for the fact that Adalind seemed to believe it too. In fact, after she drank her mom, she believed the same thing about herself.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - irukandji - 06-24-2018
What does Adalind know of being "normal"? She was a hexenbiest for over 30 years of her life, lost it for a period of months, got it back, suppressed it for a period of months, then got it back again. That wouldn't make her an authority on being a normal true human.
For the scoobies to believe her *is* a belief based on denial and self delusion.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-24-2018
Adalind didn't even qualify to be an authority on being a hexenbiest, much less on transitioning between being one and a normal non-hexenbiest person. But compared to Nick and the scoobies, as the old saying goes, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - Hell Rell - 06-24-2018
(06-23-2018, 12:47 PM)irukandji Wrote:(06-23-2018, 09:33 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: On another note, the first act of aggression has already been discussed as well. Juliette shook the shop with everyone in it. Why is that not considered an act of aggression but Rosalee lunging towards the potion is? That already happened before Juliette tossed her across the room.
Actually, I don't recall anyone stating that the lunge was the very, very, very first act of aggression. I also don't recall anyone disagreeing that Juliette's telekinetic shaking of the spice shop was an act of aggression.
I said Rosalee's lunge toward Juliette could have been viewed as an act of aggression by Juliette, but it was Juliette who attacked first, there's no question about that.
This isn't directed towards you because you acknowledge that Juliette attacked first. Therefore, other posters shouldn't come in arguing why the scoobies attacked Juliette. It's because they were attacked first.
(06-23-2018, 12:47 PM)irukandji Wrote:(06-23-2018, 09:33 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: This is just a retread of an old debate. Rosalee was not going to force Juliette to take the potion. Does anyone honestly believe she would? Saving the only potion they had does not equate to her deciding to force Juliette into taking it.
Uh, yeah, there are those who do. The question of why she would risk so much to recover a jar of potion is one indication to me that if Juliette didn't take it and Rosalee could save it, the scoobies would find a way to make her take it.
Just what did you think Rosalee was going to do with it if she had managed to catch it?
The second is the alternative if she didn't take the potion and that came from Nick himself. Juliette had already smashed the potion and asks the the question, "when are you all going to learn I like who I am?"
Instead of Nick applying his usual grimm logic and saying he gets it, you know how he replies. He answers, "well we don't".
Yet that's not even taken into consideration as a threat at all. I keep reading these statements that Juliette was free to make the choice of going to the spice shop or not go to the spice shop. But yet no one states anything about why the scoobies themselves continued to escalate the situation by refusing to let her leave the spice shop when it was obvious no one was going to make her do anything.
Yes she shook the spice shop and yes she threw Rosalee across the room. Why didn't Nick, Hank, and Monroe just tell her to get out at that point? Why did they take it to the extreme and threaten her with her life just because she didn't want to take their potion? By that point it was gone and none of them were going to defeat her. But they wouldn't let her just go.
Rosalee lunged at it because it was the only potion they had. That makes it valuable enough to save it. Rosalee would've just kept the potion until Juliette decided she wanted to take it just like the original plan was before the confrontation. Juliette would not have been given a heads up otherwise.
Nick said what he said after Juliette attacked. That is a key detail that shouldn't be omitted. Why should he like he and his friends being attacked by her?
Telling Juliette to get out would've done no good at that point. They had to defend themselves instead of hoping she would leave. A pretty please just wasn't going to cut it and they shouldn't assume it would.
How did they escalate the situation? Do you expect Monroe not to defend his wife? It's something he has done the entire series when someone attacks her and I doubt Juliette doesn't know it. Nick and Hank are also going to defend their friends despite how futile it is. These are the same people that would go on to attack Zerstorer himself in an effort to protect each other.
Once again, they didn't take it to the extreme and threaten her because she didn't want to take the potion. They attacked because they were attacked first. It had nothing to do with her not taking the potion. They had ample opportunities to do so once she became a Hexenbiest. That never happened because Juliette didn't attack them directly until that night. And that's considering they already knew she was pissed off enough to burn the trailer and her acts of aggression had been escalating recently.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - syscrash - 06-25-2018
Quote:Rosalee lunged at it because it was the only potion they had. That makes it valuable enough to save it.Save it for what. Something only has value if someone wants it.
Quote:Rosalee would've just kept the potion until Juliette decided she wanted to take it just like the original plan was before the confrontationAnd that is the problem with your argument. You continue to see the potion as a cure and the best solution for Juliette. Like Nick, you accepting that Juliette is a hexenbiest seems to not be seen as an option. Even though in the show, it is shown the potion is not a cure because it wares off. The show also shows had Juliette taken the potion, the factory ambush would have end with them all dead. Since Eve would not have been their to save them.
Here is the other problem. You do not see Rosalee coming towards Juliette as an attack because of your reason why she was coming towards Juliette.
Your view might hold water if we where talking about people.We have seen six years of how wesen attack. In every case without exception, they lung for the throat. A move that is reminiscent of Rosalee move. Based on six season of wesen attacks, a wesen lunging is an attack.
There is on basic concept that is completely over looked. That concept is no means no. Juliette said no, she did not want to take it. They just could not take no for an answer. Even to the point of pressuring her.
RE: Nick's obsession-demoting Juliette to normal human - irukandji - 06-25-2018
(06-24-2018, 08:06 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Rosalee lunged at it because it was the only potion they had. That makes it valuable enough to save it. Rosalee would've just kept the potion until Juliette decided she wanted to take it just like the original plan was before the confrontation. Juliette would not have been given a heads up otherwise.
I think we all agree that it was Juliette's decision on whether or not she was going to take the potion. At the point where Rosalee lunged at her, Juliette hadn't refused to take the potion and she hadn't destroyed it. Juliette was levitating the jar so the potion had not been destroyed. What was Rosalee doing interfering when she herself handed the potion over to Juliette.
(06-24-2018, 08:06 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Nick said what he said after Juliette attacked. That is a key detail that shouldn't be omitted. Why should he like he and his friends being attacked by her?
Nick didn't say that because he didn't like himself or his friends being attacked. He said it because he didn't like Juliette as a hexenbiest.
(06-24-2018, 08:06 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Telling Juliette to get out would've done no good at that point. They had to defend themselves instead of hoping she would leave. A pretty please just wasn't going to cut it and they shouldn't assume it would.
He had no problem telling her to get out at the precinct and according to most here, that was an even more violent confrontation than the spice shop. The thing is, she left.
And if a pretty please wasn't going to do it, then why would you think that if the scoobies said pretty please to Juliette in the first place, she would just fall over, thank her lucky stars and take the potion?
(06-24-2018, 08:06 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: How did they escalate the situation? Do you expect Monroe not to defend his wife? It's something he has done the entire series when someone attacks her and I doubt Juliette doesn't know it. Nick and Hank are also going to defend their friends despite how futile it is. These are the same people that would go on to attack Zerstorer himself in an effort to protect each other.
What exactly was Monroe going to do? Even you have to admit that woging and going after a hexenbiest who could easily kill him was foolhardy. And it stands to reason that such a foolhardy action is going to make the gun toting Nick and Hank raise the stakes even higher by drawing their weapons. All because Rosalee interfered where she shouldn't have interfered.
(06-24-2018, 08:06 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Once again, they didn't take it to the extreme and threaten her because she didn't want to take the potion. They attacked because they were attacked first. It had nothing to do with her not taking the potion. They had ample opportunities to do so once she became a Hexenbiest. That never happened because Juliette didn't attack them directly until that night. And that's considering they already knew she was pissed off enough to burn the trailer and her acts of aggression had been escalating recently.
Why bring guns to a confrontation with Juliette when none of them had been attacked by her?