+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Hexenbiestdom (/Thread-Hexenbiestdom)
RE: Hexenbiestdom - N_grimm - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 10:27 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Not how it works. Prosecution has to prove that she did. Google "burden of proof."
Face please, I’m not stupid. I know the prosecutors must prove guilt. The verdict depends on what the judge / jury believes to be true (based on evidence). I know doubts should benefit the accused etc. The prosecution would probably convince the court, just as Grimm convinced the viewers of the series (at least most of them). Evidence: a DVD with Grimm Season 4. In my world there is no doubt.
(11-01-2018, 11:01 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: If we're throwing lawyers into the discussion? Then yes, what we saw doesn't count. How many times have you seen news reports about juries acquitting people for things you actually saw them do on video?
There are three separate topics being mixed up here: what people did, what they can be charged with and what a jury would be likely to convict them for. The chances of all three being the same thing are practically non-existent.
This is a discussion about Grimm, not about whether the justice system is unable to reach a correct and fair ruling. You usually present reasonable arguments, but this is nitpicking.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 12:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You usually present reasonable arguments, but this is nitpicking.
Takes one to know one.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 11-01-2018
Anytime a discussion turns to what might happen in a court or other legal proceeding, nitpicking is inevitable. It's what keeps lawyering a profitable pursuit.
But it could be worse. It could be a civil matter rather than criminal.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - N_grimm - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 12:55 PM)irukandji Wrote:(11-01-2018, 12:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You usually present reasonable arguments, but this is nitpicking.
Takes one to know one.
Yes, I'm doing it myself sometimes (you'll probably say always ....)
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 01:10 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(11-01-2018, 12:55 PM)irukandji Wrote:(11-01-2018, 12:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: You usually present reasonable arguments, but this is nitpicking.
Takes one to know one.
Yes, I'm doing it myself sometimes (you'll probably say always ....)
No, I was prepared to let it go as I said in my previous post to you. You began it all over again.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 11-01-2018
What else is there to do in a Grimm forum until the new series is available to argue about?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 01:25 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: What else is there to do in a Grimm forum until the new series is available to argue about?
I have no problem with rehashing old subjects. But you know there are some here who seem to take a real issue with it.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - N_grimm - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 01:17 PM)irukandji Wrote: No, I was prepared to let it go as I said in my previous post to you. You began it all over again.
What did I do wrong now? Oh, wait…
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 11-01-2018
(11-01-2018, 09:31 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Adalind is responsible for Marie's death but she was just a cog. Marie was going to have people coming to that hospital to kill her regardless of Adalind. Renard would'be made sure of it. He's the main reason Marie was targeted for death and he really didn't need to rely on Adalind.
Adalind was more than just a cog.
I was thinking about the differences in how the two women approached the task they were given. When Renard told Adalind he wanted Marie dead, Adalind bought into the plan immediately. She devised the method of death and posed as a nurse to administer the injection. Even when she failed and Renard told her again that Marie needed to die, Adalind bought in once again, immediately, no hesitation, and wanted to know how she was supposed to kill Marie when her hospital room was guarded. She was interested and wanted to participate.
(11-01-2018, 09:31 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Juliette may have been a cog as well whom can claim ignorance and wasn't the one driving the bus but she is the primary reason Kelly, along with the neighbors, were killed by Kenneth and co. Kelly wouldn't have been found and lured back to Portland, let alone brutally murdered, if it weren't for Juliette. It wasn't even like she was threatened to do these things. She willingly lured Kelly back and gave out information about her neighbors. Juliette also knew an ambush was about to take place. She is largely responsible for everything that happened afterwards. The neighbors wouldn't have been killed if Kelly were not lured back to town. None of this could've happened without Juliette doing this of her own free will.
There's a few odd things about this betrayal that stick in my mind. We know at this stage of the series that Juliette is sullen, angry and has no issue with throwing someone on their ass if she doesn't like them or perceives them as a threat. We know that Juliette told Nick she was "in hell" just prior to hooking up with Kenneth.
I don't see a complete and total buy in from Juliette. Kenneth told her flat out that he was not underestimating her and so he was keeping her in sight until this thing was through. That doesn't bother Juliette a bit. She could care less. I have a feeling that if Adalind were there, she'd be angry, figuring she earned the right to be trusted. She'd want to know.
I'm not saying she didn't assist Kenneth, she did. Kenneth asks a question, she answers it. She sends and email and talks to Kelly on the phone, but doesn't care for a face to face. She listens to the commotion, but remains upstairs.
All that's been discussed is "what Juliette knows". What if she told Kenneth she'd help, and then added, "but I don't want to know"?
I have a feeling that would be perfectly fine with Kenneth.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - brandon - 11-02-2018
I think there have been several times when the main instigator of a crime remains hidden-example Juliette-
Adalind did it partly because she was in love or charmed by Renard,as she said to his mother.
Instead, Juliette did it out of a deep hatred for Nick because of everything that happened between them.
I also think that Nick would not have stopped protecting Adalind even if the baby was not his