(10-05-2018, 07:11 AM)eric Wrote:

(10-05-2018, 01:23 AM)dicappatore Wrote:

(10-04-2018, 04:53 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(10-04-2018, 04:45 PM)eric Wrote:

(10-04-2018, 03:53 PM)brandon Wrote: I do not consider Juliette selfish after the change.
She simply could not see the good side when turned " Hexenbiest ".

Had she learned about any upside to being a hex? Were there any hex's she had any reason to trust--Renard's mom made the potion with the side effect. Could she expect that Nick, who she loved, wouldn't kill her? Did she get any real support from anyone in the gang? If it was me, I'd probably be a little testy. Plus, as far as we know, the time from seeing herself in the mirror to Truble shooting her was a few weeks at most. For all we know she might have calmed down with more time.

At last. Thank you, eric.

I guess some with selective memory keep forgetting this is the same gang that got her memory to stop going down the shitz hole and prevented her from becoming a vegetable. This was the same gang that gave her her memories of Nick back with the cleansing ritual. Yea she should be a bit testy with the side effects of getting Nick's Grimm back. Side effects she was willing to accept when SHE decided to help Nick. Being testy and to full betrayal is a whole other story. Just more and more excuses for the evil one.

Both of you should re-watch those episodes. More than a few weeks went by from when she started to realize something was at foot from the time she helped them rescue Monroe to the time she was shot by Trubel. It might have taken a few weeks from the time she realized what she was to the time she walked out of the house.

Then more than a few more weeks went by from the time she kicked Adalind's ass. She slept in the car. The time she spent with Sean. The time she spent in jail from her bar hopping incident, gets bailed out and add in the time she spent living in the hotel with Kenneth and the time they had to wait for Kelly to show up at the house. Then you also have to add a few more days after his mother was killed, the house was cleaned up and the mansion invasion by the gang.

If both of you are claiming all this took place, the most in a few weeks? What can I say? More and more opinionated postings attempts to being passed on as factual.

Now I am the 1st to admit the TV show weekly episodes normally do not reflect the broadcast time line but do you two realize this took place during more than half of season 4? Juliette was asking about if she could be pregnant in S4, E8. A few weeks the most? Do either of you remember what episode she went to see Henrietta? Let me remind you, E12. What were you both watching? Dis you both miss out on episodes 9 through 21? Did you both not see 3/4 of S4? Or are you just making more excuses for Juliette, AGAIN?

Time is a relative thing. We seem to agree there are a few weeks between her breaking the mirror to the end of season 4. The disagreement appears to be how many is "few". At my age time seems to fly by like a jet plane, for the younger set it is slower. Juliette was sweeping up the glass when she got the call that Rosalee was going to stay for a while. Monroe was freed after 2-3 days tops. IMO Juliette went to see Renard for help right after that. Most of the shows seemed to be spaced very closely together, even if it took us more than a few weeks to see what happened. Okay, so how long do you think in the show's real time lapsed from the mirror to the crossbow-10 days, 20 days, 60 days? My personal experience that is takes longer than 100 days to accept and adjust to to an extremely traumatic event and regain your composure. That is all I was trying to say, going from normal to hex would take some time for me to adjust to, maybe less time for for others. PS, I feel it detracts from the discussions on the forum to say someone's view is "full of shitz".

Quote:this is the same gang that got her memory to stop going down the shitz hole and prevented her from becoming a vegetable.

Quote: I will admit, what raised my tail feathers, what got my scope up, what raised a flag, to reply to your post, was the comment, 'At last. Thank you, eric."

(10-04-2018, 05:04 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(10-04-2018, 04:58 PM)N_grimm Wrote: The politeness part was thrown out of the window after the "(sigh) I assumed you realized".

I apologize for that snark. I should have deleted it the moment I wrote it

(10-04-2018, 04:58 PM)N_grimm Wrote: I know everyone died, but Adalind was killed while trying to take the ax from Z while Nick fought for his life.

I just don't see how this makes Adalind any more special than Hank, Eve, or the rest. All of them died fighting the Big Z. I mean, really, what else were they going to do?

Juliette's actions were much more personal in that she showed true courage. She was not going to gain a thing from being the final ingredient in the potion. She did it entirely for Nick.

(10-05-2018, 03:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: This is how I see it:
When Juliette inhaled from the hat and slept with Nick, she did nothing that Adalind had not already done – and she was still alive and kicking. They did not know the danger. If they had, Nick would never let her help. That Juliette became a hex was an unexpected side effect. You can also argue that she had a personal interest– safety. When it became known that Nick was not a Grimm, he risked going from hunter to hunted. Living with Nick would also pose a threat to her.

When Kenneth addressed Juliette, she was promised an important role in the royal family (even queen) if she betrayed Nick and tricked his mother into a death trap. We all know what Juliette did. She was even going to kill Nick when Trouble fired the crossbow. In season 5, when Adalind was pressured to stay with Renard to get Diana back, she was intended the role as "first lady of the city". She had both children with her. She could have helped BC catch Nick. She had nothing to gain from being loyal to him at that point. She did something entirely for Nick.

I'm NOT trying to make Adalind a hero, but to emphasize why Juliette does not represent courage and honor. We obviously have different perspectives.

(10-05-2018, 03:40 PM)brandon Wrote: She had to take it in a good way and not put himself as " crazy " that she became hexenbiest.
Juliette could defend himself against the guy - season 4, 10..

(10-05-2018, 04:15 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(10-05-2018, 03:21 PM)N_grimm Wrote: This is how I see it:
When Juliette inhaled from the hat and slept with Nick, she did nothing that Adalind had not already done – and she was still alive and kicking. They did not know the danger. If they had, Nick would never let her help. That Juliette became a hex was an unexpected side effect. You can also argue that she had a personal interest– safety. When it became known that Nick was not a Grimm, he risked going from hunter to hunted. Living with Nick would also pose a threat to her.

When Kenneth addressed Juliette, she was promised an important role in the royal family (even queen) if she betrayed Nick and tricked his mother into a death trap. We all know what Juliette did. She was even going to kill Nick when Trouble fired the crossbow. In season 5, when Adalind was pressured to stay with Renard to get Diana back, she was intended the role as "first lady of the city". She had both children with her. She could have helped BC catch Nick. She had nothing to gain from being loyal to him at that point. She did something entirely for Nick.

I'm NOT trying to make Adalind a hero, but to emphasize why Juliette does not represent courage and honor. We obviously have different perspectives.

Is that really a fair comparison to state that Juliette didn't do anything that Adalind hadn't done smoking the hat? After all, Nick is the only witness and he's never been the sharpest tool in the shed, so Elizabeth would have to piece together what he could remember along with what she believed Adalind did to change the spell. Aside from that, Juliette wasn't a hexenbiest and was warned about side effects.

I also don't think it's a fair comparison to yet go into the old "what Juliette did after she became a hexenbiest" in an effort to show that she's not heroic. By the way, I never stated she was heroic. I said she showed true courage when she agreed to be the final ingredient.

I don't believe she did it because she was concerned that Nick was keeping her safe. She'd already been in very dangerous situations and near death and that was while Nick was with her. So his presence had nothing to do with her decision, as far as I see.

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(10-05-2018, 03:40 PM)brandon Wrote: She had to take it in a good way and not put himself as " crazy " that she became hexenbiest.
Juliette could defend himself against the guy - season 4, 10..

Just how was she supposed to do that?

(10-05-2018, 05:41 PM)N_grimm Wrote: To be clear: I'm not saying Juliette was cowardly, just that she showed no greater courage than the others. It turned out later it was a mistake for a human to smoke the hat, but this was an unknown side-effect. Many of the characters went thru strange and dangerous rituals in the series.

You have argued that she had no personal interests. I argue that “safety” could be one. We know that the triggering factor was the attack on M & R. Her great sin was to blame others, even though Nick did not want her to do it in the first place.

You try to make her appear as a person with big courage and kindness - it's at least the way I interpret it. Most people, including myself, regards her as the big villain in season 4. My point is that she was not any braver than the others. What happened was not expected. And her reaction showed that she was not a good person. Then there is a separate discussion about whether the hexenbiest Juliette reflected her own free will. I believe she was partly responsible - and I have solid arguments to support this (note: attempted humor).

(10-05-2018, 11:20 AM)irukandji Wrote:

Quote: I will admit, what raised my tail feathers, what got my scope up, what raised a flag, to reply to your post, was the comment, 'At last. Thank you, eric."

Well, well, well. As I thought. You are so irritated at me that you can't even stand a simple thank you to eric. So much for the fake cloaking yourself in such idiotic statements about how you stick to facts and base your opinions on facts and criticizing my opinions. The real you coming out yet again. Thanks for putting it in writing yet again.

(10-05-2018, 06:21 PM)irukandji Wrote: All in all, though, I'd have to say I disagree with you about Juliette being the bigger villain in season 4.