(08-05-2018, 06:46 AM)irukandji Wrote: I recall a comment from a poster not so long ago:

"Nick has a history of almost 4 seasons bending over backward for this bitch".

To be sure, the poster who made this comment is now contradicting himself. However, this is not the only comment from the forum that points fingers at Juliette as the issue in the Nick/Juliette relationship.

If Nick is the stereotypical male, why the severe criticism of Juliette then?

(08-05-2018, 11:39 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(08-05-2018, 10:22 AM)brandon Wrote: What stereotype?

If he's not a tv stereotypical male, why then didn't Nick clue in to how odd "Juliette" was acting? I get that he might not be able to tell this was someone else he was having an afternoon delight with. But if he's truly the good and wonderful man you see him as, why wasn't he sensing that there's "something wrong with Juliette"?

(08-05-2018, 10:04 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:

(08-05-2018, 06:46 AM)irukandji Wrote: If Nick is the stereotypical male, why the severe criticism of Juliette then?

I suspect that there are some people who identify with the stereotypical male.

(08-05-2018, 01:07 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:

(08-05-2018, 04:56 AM)dicappatore Wrote: Thats why, you analyze the characters presented on the screen, not what you wished for.

That is what I'm doing. Except that you can't really critique what a character did if you have no concept of the character should have done.

I'm fairly certain that it was never "writers' intent" for Nick to be a total relationship doofus, but there were at most maybe a half dozen Nick/Juliette scenes in the entire series that didn't make me want to hit Nick over the head with something.

(08-05-2018, 07:05 PM)irukandji Wrote: There's a scene where Eve talks about not being able to forgive Juliette for all of the bad things she's done. That includes of course, the obvious things the audience sees as bad.

But what if Eve is also talking about not being able to forgive Juliette for the time she spent with Nick and had nothing to show for it? I can't tell you how many women I know who start off with, "I can never forgive myself for wasting years on (insert name here) and putting up with his sh+t! Juliette wasted a lot of time and effort on Nick. I can see where Eve might look at that as just another thing she can't forgive Juliette for.

Everyone thinks Juliette's hexenbiest was a terrible thing. In some ways, I think it gave her an insight she never would have had as a human. Could you imagine her 20 years later, hanging with Nick and still having nothing to show for it?

(08-05-2018, 07:34 PM)irukandji Wrote: Eve had no good words for her Juliette counterpart. I would think that if Juliette and Nick were a good thing, Eve would have, at the very least, made a comment about it.

(08-05-2018, 07:35 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Well, Eve is rather emphatic that she wouldn't go back to the way things were even if she could, so I don't think that possibility can be ruled out. We just can't quantify what percentage of her total regrets it might represent.

(08-05-2018, 08:37 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Eve was clearly talking about the obvious bad stuff and not her time with Nick. Her not wanting to go back doesn't mean she regrets. It just means she's moved on.

Besides, Juliette's time with Nick led to her becoming Eve so she can't regret it if she truly meant what she said in "Where the Wild Things Were".

(08-06-2018, 06:07 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It's entirely possible to still care about and be protective of an ex even if you look back on your former relationship as a mistake. Especially if you're now an operative of a govt black operation that considers him a valuable potential asset.

I think Nick was more ignorant than self-centered. His instinct toward Juliette was more protective than possessive, but he had this kind of superhero complex that led him to the startlingly absurd belief that she was somehow less exposed to danger if she didn't know about it.

(08-06-2018, 04:06 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(08-05-2018, 08:37 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Eve was clearly talking about the obvious bad stuff and not her time with Nick. Her not wanting to go back doesn't mean she regrets. It just means she's moved on.

Besides, Juliette's time with Nick led to her becoming Eve so she can't regret it if she truly meant what she said in "Where the Wild Things Were".

First off, I want to make this very clear. I never said Eve wasn't talking about the obvious bad stuff. However, and if you notice, after she talks about the bad things that have happened to her and the bad things she's done, she doesn't quantify it all by stating, "except for you, Nick. Your love got me through it all."

What she goes on to say is that when they were together she only knew a part of who he was and *he* only knew a part of who he was.

Second, when I speak of her statement, I am saying that there is the possibility that Eve looked back at her time with Nick (as Juliette) and considered it a waste. She knows he loved her but what good is that if neither of them knows who *he* is? If, as speculated, Nick is a stereotypical male who's self-centered, then what would she have gotten out of that? A woman would look at that kind of thing and think it was terrible. She would blame herself, not the guy, which is what Juliette did.

(08-06-2018, 06:07 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It's entirely possible to still care about and be protective of an ex even if you look back on your former relationship as a mistake. Especially if you're now an operative of a govt black operation that considers him a valuable potential asset.

I think Nick was more ignorant than self-centered. His instinct toward Juliette was more protective than possessive, but he had this kind of superhero complex that led him to the startlingly absurd belief that she was somehow less exposed to danger if she didn't know about it.

(08-06-2018, 07:14 AM)dicappatore Wrote: Did you see the season 3, 4 & 5? or just 1, 2 & 3? Actually, he did try to tell her in S1, E22. Did you read my post #220 & #223? on this thread?

(08-06-2018, 09:15 AM)irukandji Wrote: However, you have people on the forum who believe Juliette treated Nick coldly and was aloof toward him. They didn't change their opinions once she became a hexenbiest. In point of fact, they reinforced their opinion of her.

(08-06-2018, 09:55 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Yes, I did, but apparently you weren't paying attention when I said that S01 created an undercurrent of mistrust. That obviously got better as long as Nick kept Juliette constantly "in the loop," but it resurfaced briefly when she viewed the obvious signs of something happening in their bed without her, and once her mind was warped by her transformation into a hexenbiest, it exploded beyond all reason

(08-06-2018, 08:57 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Juliette not wanting to go back doesn't mean she considered it a waste. I remember that Lois & Clark show from the 90s where kids took drugs to become smarter. They asked Superman if he would go back to being a kid if he could and he responded by saying no because he's already been one and he's moved on. I'm certain he didn't regret his childhood and saw it as a waste of time. Juliette didn't give off any impression of disgust from her time with Nick. She also mentioned how everything they've been through were leading to this moment and she didn't imply it was a bad thing.

(08-06-2018, 08:57 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: As for Nick's character, I saw someone mentioned he may have been written as the stereotypical male at times but I didn't see the term "self-centered" being used anywhere. Nor did I see Juliette believing it either. She threatened Adalind not to hurt him and not the other way around.