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+--- Thread: Hexenbiestdom (/Thread-Hexenbiestdom)
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Hell Rell - 07-31-2018
I really think the "Was it rape or not?" is in an entirely different league from the other debates and should be treated as such. I've made my stance clear on that so I won't reiterate everything here. I will just say that rape is an act and that act appeared on my screen so arguing about the writers' intent isn't a get out of jail free card for them. It's a terrible thing to have a rape in a show and not have it be acknowledged as such.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 08-02-2018
(07-31-2018, 09:33 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: I really think the "Was it rape or not?" is in an entirely different league from the other debates and should be treated as such. I've made my stance clear on that so I won't reiterate everything here. I will just say that rape is an act and that act appeared on my screen so arguing about the writers' intent isn't a get out of jail free card for them. It's a terrible thing to have a rape in a show and not have it be acknowledged as such.
I don't think writers' intent can be argued in this instance. On the other hand, I don't know how anyone could stand behind an opinion because none of the characters reactions make a lot of sense.
Wouldn't this be an instance where the writers are absolutely to blame?
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 08-02-2018
If the writers had asked a "technical advisor" about this, the answer would have been "???"
There are only a few states in the US where sex through impersonation is even considered a crime, much less a felony such as rape. Here in Oregon, there are two possible charges that it might fall under. One of them would require a jury to accept an interpretation of law that has never been tested in court, and the other didn't take effect until 2017. They're both misdemeanors.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 08-02-2018
In regard to my question, I'm not talking about legal issues, but the characters reactions.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 08-02-2018
Well, since Nick is an LEO, he'd probably already be aware that what Adalind did by impersonating Juliette couldn't be called rape. He was still pretty ticked off about it.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - Hell Rell - 08-02-2018
(08-02-2018, 04:01 AM)irukandji Wrote: I don't think writers' intent can be argued in this instance. On the other hand, I don't know how anyone could stand behind an opinion because none of the characters reactions make a lot of sense.
Wouldn't this be an instance where the writers are absolutely to blame?
The writers didn't intend to write a rape but they did. I have no problem with them including it. They just should've acknowledged it as such.
There's no question that the writers are to blame since they wrote it. I remember when a rape in GoT occurred that apparently wasn't intended to be a rape but that was blamed on the director which I call bullshit on. It's just another reason of many why I don't respect the GoT showrunners. The Grimm writers showed they weren't equipped to deal with this subject because it's painfully obvious from watching the show. They're among the many writers, mostly men from my experience, who handle the subject poorly or don't acknowledge it at all when it happens. Maybe the characters don't see it that way but it's more surprising that the writers don't see it that way.
(08-02-2018, 09:12 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Well, since Nick is an LEO, he'd probably already be aware that what Adalind did by impersonating Juliette couldn't be called rape. He was still pretty ticked off about it.
I understand the legal aspect but that's a really slippery slope. It wasn't like Nick was going to press charges even if he did consider it rape from a legal standpoint. I was referring to the act and not the legal terminology for it. That discussion has led to a lot of ugliness in other forums.
I remember when some rapes on GoT occurred and people denied it being rape because the woman in question was married and it wasn't considered rape in medieval times. They refused to call it rape and that just led to more of a shitstorm. Personally, I think of rape as an act and don't think of it from a standpoint of whether someone can be convicted for it or not.
Besides, this is a show where plenty of wesen we know are guilty wouldn't be convicted or even charged in some instances.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 08-02-2018
I know it's an ongoing debate whether Nick was a good cop or not, but as an LEO part of his training would have been to not use language that could be construed as unsupportable accusations of crimes. It should be an ingrained thing. So unless someone else - for example, Juliette - actually asked him if he felt raped, the word would be unlikely to enter into his thoughts or come out of his mouth. Especially as he's dealing, in rapid-fire order, with the loss of his grimm, the shooting of his captain by an FBI agent in his home, the beheading of said shooter by Trubel in his home and the FBI swarming over his home and wanting to interrogate Trubel.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - irukandji - 08-02-2018
(08-02-2018, 09:27 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: The writers didn't intend to write a rape but they did. I have no problem with them including it. They just should've acknowledged as such.
You know, I'm not so sure about this. The way these characters were so poorly portrayed, it almost seems to me like the writers intended to show us there was a rape, yet conceal it via the cluelessness of their characters. I know that probably doesn't make sense, but I saw a similar action with Nick's "kiss" that robbed Adalind of her hexenbiest powers.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - FaceInTheCrowd - 08-02-2018
I think the explanation is a lot simpler. Most men are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of men being sexually victimized. Most studies of it show that men are even more unlikely to allow a sexual assault against them to go unreported than women are. The writers are almost all men, and their unwillingness to contemplate the idea of the male hero of their action series being a victim of a sex crime shows up in their depiction of all the characters they write.
RE: Hexenbiestdom - syscrash - 08-02-2018
On the subject of rape on a show. A comment was made that GOT ignored the subject. Consider Sansa. Talking to Bran the character acknowledged what happened on her wedding night. Even Danny talking to John acknowledged that she was sold and defiled.
People try and rationalize their argument based on the characters personality, or an over sight on the characters part. That would be valid if they where real. The writes do not address something because of a character. They address it to make a point. If not addressed then they did not mean it to be seen that way.
As for Adalind using deception making it rape would make most people after a nigh out be rapist. There are thousands of pick up at bars, and I bet most involve some form of deception. From the guys pretending to be rich and important. To the women using makeup and other enhancements to look better then what they are. Is it rape if you wake up to find the hot blond lawyer you took home last night. Is actually a balding, middle aged, over weight, hooker.
When the subject first came up. I commented there is no way Nick would not have known that was not Juliette. Even if it did look like Juliette. Are you saying if blindfolded you could not tell if someone kissing you was not you significant other. I can tell even if one of my girlfriends friends is sending a tweet pretending to be her. As a couple there are little clues that only you two know. The writers even added dialog of Nick acknowledging something was different.
If using deception to have sex is a crime. Then what about the guys that rent fancy cars, buy knock off designer cloths, and have fake business cards printed. They borrow or house site some exclusive address, when they take someone home are they then considered a rapist. Their entire acts was one hundred percent deception. What about women who have themselves modified using surgery to look like someone famous, then go around acting like the famous person they look like. Are they rapist. Then why is Adalind a rapist , she did with magic what others do with surgery.
We can take it even further. Based on your argument that deception constitutes rape. Do you consider post op transgenders criminals, if they don't say they are transgender.
As in the other post there are no laws concerning deception. That is why what Adalind did does not violate any laws. That is why the writers made sure there was no coercion, intimidation or force. And yes they writers do consult experts on controversial topics to insure they do not cross any lines.
Here is another point. Grimm is a show on network TV. Not cable or a streaming service. The show is governed by the FCC. If What Adalind did was in anyway considered rape they would not have been able to air it.