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+--- Thread: Witch hunts and witch trials (/Thread-Witch-hunts-and-witch-trials)
Witch hunts and witch trials - danielmarder - 01-25-2018
The persecution of witches is something I wish the show touched upon more. They were a huge part of European history and many, many women were killed. The Witch Hammer was a bestseller in Europe for centuries!
This makes me wonder, what do you think was behind it in the Grimm universe?
Part of me doubts that Grimms were the main instigators. They were much more to do with mob violence, and were basically indiscriminate and arbitrary. We know that a lot of riots and mob violence are actually instigated by Wesen, and we also know that conflict between Wesen is common.
Another thing we know is that Hexenbiests and Zauberbiests were manipulative and seem to be drawn to power, something that is bound to rub many people the wrong way, not just Grimms.
I also think that people practising various forms of magical practice would have been persecuted, not just Hexenbiests and Zauberbiests. If you look at some of what Rosalee does, she definitely would have been considered a "witch" in medieval Europe.
So, what are your theories or explanations behind the witch persecutions in Christian Europe in the Grimm universe?
RE: Witch hunts and witch trials - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-25-2018
It was mentioned once or twice during the series that some witch scares and trials were the result of kehrseite panic over wesen being seen woging. They were just side remarks with no detail, but nothing was said about all the victims being wesen. I have a hard time seeing the wesen population of some hamlet waiting quietly to see which of them would be targeted by the witch hunters and just letting themselves be taken, as opposed to either running for the hills or fighting back, so my guess is that the vast majority of the victims of these panics were kehrseites. Which leads me to conclude that the trials were most likely what happened when a grimm did not show up to rid the town of its supposed satanic villain.
RE: Witch hunts and witch trials - eric - 01-25-2018
Middle Age Europe, Salem and in modern Africa were times when there is a lot of turmoil and change, and people look for someone to blame their troubles on. Unpopular cranky folk get a lot of the blame for curses on livestock, bad harvests, illnesses of their neighbors. Powerful and well liked people are never accused of being witches. Wessen who may have been seen in woge would have been easy targets to be greeted with pitchforks and torches.
RE: Witch hunts and witch trials - danielmarder - 01-26-2018
(01-25-2018, 10:40 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It was mentioned once or twice during the series that some witch scares and trials were the result of kehrseite panic over wesen being seen woging. They were just side remarks with no detail, but nothing was said about all the victims being wesen. I have a hard time seeing the wesen population of some hamlet waiting quietly to see which of them would be targeted by the witch hunters and just letting themselves be taken, as opposed to either running for the hills or fighting back, so my guess is that the vast majority of the victims of these panics were kehrseites. Which leads me to conclude that the trials were most likely what happened when a grimm did not show up to rid the town of its supposed satanic villain.
I don't actually remember these comments, but everything you've said makes sense to me. The witch hunts were panics carried out by mobs.
We do know that some hexenbiests were caught during the persecutions, though. I think Renard and his mother refer to this at one point
RE: Witch hunts and witch trials - brandon - 01-26-2018
Because the church also had to see it, for them all sorcery is bad and I think the "GRIMM" would think the same.what would propel the villagers to be killers: fear,ignorance, evil, incomprehension,greed, envy.There were people accusing neighbors of envy.
RE: Witch hunts and witch trials - New Guy - 01-26-2018
(01-26-2018, 07:26 AM)brandon Wrote: Because the church also had to see it, for them all sorcery is bad and I think the "GRIMM" would think the same.what would propel the villagers to be killers: fear,ignorance, evil, incomprehension,greed, envy.There were people accusing neighbors of envy.Hi Brandon,
This is the first of several web posts from a Google search for Bible quotes about witches:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-witchcraft/
This verse may be a primary motivation for "witch hunts":
Quote:Lev 20:27There seems to be many movies, tv programs and plays that include witchcraft in the story line.
A man also or woman that is a medium, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Here is a recent publication about modern day "witch-hunts":
https://www.seeker.com/culture/culture/labeling-women-witches-remains-a-powerful-tool-for-social-stigmatization
Enjoy!
N G
RE: Witch hunts and witch trials - syscrash - 01-27-2018
Modern psychology has observed that people have a need to make sense of the world they live in. As technology improves science replaces superstition. Where once casual observation lead to conclusions. The scientific method now provides Empirical evidence to the truth. This eliminates the belief in superstitions. But even in the age of enlightened thought. We still have people who traffic in conspiracy theories. Theories that do not even come close to stand up to the scrutiny of the scientific method. They depend more on what person believes that what they can prove. This forum is a good example. So many of the comments are based on people beliefs systems. Beliefs that the use to create a self full filling narrative of the understanding of the show. Reading about what lead to the witch trials, this is exactly what lead to the persecution. Persecutions where based on people seeing things that proved their point and dismissed things that did not fit the narrative. Basically this forum is filled with the same type of thinking that perpetrated the witch hunts and the modern day persecution of those that are different.
Just like Wu said when he first learned about wesen. Why don't we hunt them down. He had no other reason for that opinion other then they where different and scary. This is the same argument used in real life to justify attacks of groups of people that are different. understand why someone would attack a mosque, explains why people would hunt witches, or why the Grimm books are fill with ways to hunt wesen. To me this is the point G&K are trying to make with Grimm. A lot of the WOW are based on prejudice and persecution for no other reason then being different and not excepted. In fact that is what BC was fighting for. The right to be openly wesen and do what wesen do. I do not disagree with their message. I disagree with there method. Violent rebellion is never a good thing. You can not force people to see things your way. Also if your way of life in fringes on the safety and ability for other to live in peace. Then it is not conducive to a harmonious society. that is different then someone beliefs offending your sensibilities.