+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? (/Thread-Do-wesen-encounters-turn-deadly-because-of-Nick-s-presence)
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-11-2018
And there's the cupiditas who Nick put away before he got his grimm.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - Henry of green - 01-11-2018
(01-10-2018, 07:06 PM)Robyn Wrote:(01-10-2018, 06:27 PM)irukandji Wrote: What I was thinking is that wesen are so freaked out by Nick that they panic and experience the flight or fight reflex. After Nick has chased them down, they're still freaked out by him, but now they're cornered and the only alternative left is to fight. Which naturally gets them killed.I don’t see a Wesen as mild as Bud resisting arrest, and wouldn’t attack unless events escalated to the point he felt he did have anything to lose by trying to defend himself. But a Wesen somewhere between a Bud and a Monroe, who might otherwise not be inclined to resist or attack, could manic when realizing it’s a Grimm and not a cop who’s about to slap on the cuffs.
I'm thinking that if Hank was the officer on site, things more than likely would have ended differently. A suspect can always panic and things escalate, but judging from the number that are arrested by human officers, it seems more get brought in alive with them than those who come in contact with Nick.
But as I said earlier, I don’t recall any deaths that occurred because of panic during an interrogation or arrest. But there’s a lot of episodes I probably didn’t see, and most the details of those I watched have been forgotten.
Were there Wesen arrested by other police officers? I know it make sense that there would be, but did that happen on the show?
Robyn, Renard told wu in season 4 that the majority of violent crimes everywhere are committed by wesen so other police officers have definitely arrested wesen.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - irukandji - 01-11-2018
The general consensus here on the forum is that Nick is a good guy, the hero of Grimm. Like any law enforcement officer, he strives to do good. Doing his job involves uncovering the truth and saving lives in the process. As a Grimm he's been tasked by great Aunt Marie to save the good wesen.
I think it's fair to say that when Nick goes out on assignment, he must present a fair and objective picture of Portland law enforcement. It's an unknown at that point whether he'll be encountering humans or wesen. It's unknown whether they will be good or bad.
However, once Nick finds out that the suspect is wesen, his behavior changes in order to accomplish the ends of uncovering the truth, but not necessarily saving lives in the process.
Does Nick's behavior make him a "cowboy cop"?
For those unfamiliar with the term, "cowboy cop", here's an abbreviated definition:
A Cowboy Cop may be an Anti-Hero (or an occasional Byronic Hero) if he is the protagonist of the show, typically Hot-Blooded and passionate about his maverick antics, or a Jerk with a Heart of Gold whose unlikely claims will generally be proven correct. However, in shows that feature cops as secondary characters, the Cowboy Cop is often at odds with the main characters, as he will trample all over the crime scene and/or the suspect's rights.
He will usually be a detective, as a beat cop is much less likely to be intimately involved in a case's full duration.
In a SWAT Team type situation where the cops are expected to shoot to kill, he does not care about human shields or property damage and will more often than not almost level the place to take down the suspects, with extreme lethal force.
There have been many back and forth debates about who was able to outbest who, be it Nick or Renard. With that in mind, I also want to pose a question with regard to Renard. He ran for mayor, but was the captain and Nick's behavior could certainly be viewed as a major stumbling block to his campaign. Renard had full authority to boot Nick off the force and would have been commended for his efforts.
With that in mind,
why then would Renard keep someone like Nick on the police force?
Credit for this post goes entirely to Face In The Crowd for recommending what I consider a terrific thought for discussion.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-11-2018
Just about every TV cop crosses the line into cowboy behavior compared to real life cops, Nick is pretty much formulaic. The only difference between him and most of the other cops on TV is the supernatural aspects of what he encounters.
In the beginning of the series, Renard protected and nurtured Nick the grimm because he wanted him as a minion. By the end of S02, minion was no longer a viable option and Renard switched to trying to win Nick's support as an ally. By the time that collapsed at the end of S05, Nick had as much or more dirt on Renard as Renard had on Nick, if not with local authorities then with the Feds (HW) and they spent most of S06 just staying out of each others' way. As I said previously, the real question is not why Renard didn't act against Nick or vice versa, but why HW didn't rendition Renard off to Gitmo or some other foreign interrogation center.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - irukandji - 01-11-2018
(01-11-2018, 07:09 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: In the beginning of the series, Renard protected and nurtured Nick the grimm because he wanted him as a minion. By the end of S02, minion was no longer a viable option and Renard switched to trying to win Nick's support as an ally. By the time that collapsed at the end of S05, Nick had as much or more dirt on Renard as Renard had on Nick, if not with local authorities then with the Feds (HW) and they spent most of S06 just staying out of each others' way. As I said previously, the real question is not why Renard didn't act against Nick or vice versa, but why HW didn't rendition Renard off to Gitmo or some other foreign interrogation center.
I can see season why Renard put up with Nick in season one. Nick was a novice grimm. Renard must have figured he could easily be molded into a tool for Renard's use, whether it be on the job or personal. But Nick changed from formula detective to full fledged grimm in season two, he was of no use to Renard. Nick didn't have the makings of an ally, at least one that Renard could use. His behavior on the street was graphic, not subtle or invisible, which were Renard's trademarks. Renard should have rid himself of Nick in season two.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - Hell Rell - 01-11-2018
Wasn't having Nick on the force a good thing for Renard? I mean in a political way since it was mentioned by Wu that he and Hank closed cases that normal detectives wouldn't be able to close. Renard probably would've benefited from having someone like that in his precinct. I suppose someone could go digging but I think Renard was very good at making it look like there wasn't any funny business going on.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-11-2018
Nick and Renard continued to have a common enemy in the royals, right up until the end of S04 and up until Renard made the decision to go in with BC. So the period when Nick being around became a liability for Renard really didn't begin until the middle of S05, when Renard realized who had killed Andrew Dixon and then, as Meisner later said, chose the wrong side.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - Hell Rell - 01-11-2018
(01-11-2018, 10:52 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Nick and Renard continued to have a common enemy in the royals, right up until the end of S04 and up until Renard made the decision to go in with BC. So the period when Nick being around became a liability for Renard really didn't begin until the middle of S05, when Renard realized who had killed Andrew Dixon and then, as Meisner later said, chose the wrong side.
I think this is pretty accurate. They were mutually beneficial for each other until season 5.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-12-2018
It's just my opinion, but I have to say that making Renard a full-time villain weakened the character enormously. He was much better as an ambiguous player who shifted back and forth between sides.
RE: Do wesen encounters turn deadly because of Nick's presence? - irukandji - 01-12-2018
(01-11-2018, 10:31 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Wasn't having Nick on the force a good thing for Renard? I mean in a political way since it was mentioned by Wu that he and Hank closed cases that normal detectives wouldn't be able to close. Renard probably would've benefited from having someone like that in his precinct. I suppose someone could go digging but I think Renard was very good at making it look like there wasn't any funny business going on.
I thought the implication there was that the reports were being altered in some way. As an example, how would the frog girl incident be reported without fudging events? As many have stated here, Nick's a grimm dealing with wesen. They can't be taken in, tried, and prosecuted like regular criminals. Yet other cops are doing just that. Some of those cops are wesen and others are human.