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+--- Thread: Diana Nick and Adalind the family (/Thread-Diana-Nick-and-Adalind-the-family)
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-17-2017
Meisner was always Renard's man in Europe. He was a big help in getting Adalind and Diana out of Europe, but I always wondered why she told Nick that she trusted him. But if I had been Nick, after being told by Adalind that Renard might try to use Diana to manipulate her and that Renard and Meisner were still buddies, the last thing I'd want to do is ask either of them about it. I'd try to find some way to go around them.
I think the first time we saw for sure that Eve knew HW had Diana was when she brought up the alert about Diana being taken. Whether she knew about Diana before that is another matter. And if there was ever anything that said Trubel was in on that info, I can't recall it.
Adalind "got past" the scoobies taking Diana because when Kenneth and the royals abandoned her to a homicidal Juliette they stepped up to protect her. All Renard did for her then was pawn her off onto Nick.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - Robyn - 09-17-2017
There’s never been rhyme or reason to why these people instantaneously trust. Adalind and Nick immediately trusted that one wouldn’t take the baby from the other. Even when Nick didn’t trust Adalind with his stick, he continued to trust her with his child.
Adalind trusted Meisner for the same reason she trusted Nick, both men took care of her and protected her. With Adalind that’s about all it takes. But I have no idea why Nick never worried that Adalind might take off with Kelly to find Diana, particularly in the beginning. She went to the Royals to get Diana before, so why would Nick assume she wouldn’t do it again. Nick and his people had already taken one child from her, why would Adalind assume they wouldn’t take another, especially when that second one was Nick’s.
You as the Grimm probably wouldn’t trust Meisner or Renard. I certainly wouldn’t have. But that’s not how Nick did things. He didn’t seriously distrust Renard until he came home and to an empty loft and read Adalind’s letter. Adalind warned Nick that Renard would try something. Meisner, Eve, and Trubel warned Nick that BC having Diana would compromise Adalind, but Nick didn’t react until Eve called to tell him something was happening with Adalind at that moment.
Nick and his friends weren’t protecting Adalind from Juliette or Kenneth. They were protecting Nick’s unborn child. Do you think they would have risked retaliation from Juliette or Kenneth in order to save Adalind? Nick might have wanted to save Juliette from crossing a line that she couldn’t come back from, but I don’t think he would have lost sleep over Adalind’s demise.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-17-2017
(09-17-2017, 07:09 PM)Robyn Wrote: You as the Grimm probably wouldn’t trust Meisner or Renard.
I wasn't even thinking about it as far as trust. I just figured if they were going to use knowledge of Diana's whereabouts to try to manipulate Adalind, there was no way they were going to give it up for the asking.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - Robyn - 09-17-2017
I’m confused, so I’ll try to catch up. You questioned why Adalind trusted Meisner or told Nick to trust him. I responded that all the characters trusted too quickly in early S5 - except between Adalind and Renard.
Bonaparte knew that Adalind would come if he and Renard had Diana. He never planned to barter with Adalind using Diana’s whereabouts as leverage. He simply planned to coerce her into joining Renard at the BC house.
Nick might have thought talking to Renard was a risk, but Adalind never mentioned Meisner manipulating her or that he actually had Diana. My point was that Nick nor Adalind reached out to Meisner despite him and the Resistance helping her and Diana before. When Adalind asked Nick about finding Diana, she knew Meisner took her from the King, but Nick didn’t know Meisner/HW had Diana until close to the season end. But Nick didn’t have any reaction when Meisner, Eve, and Trubel told him, and didn’t show any signs of wanting to tell Adalind what was happening with her daughter. Really, most people would express more compassion when finding someone’s lost dog than they expressed for a mother and her kidnapped child. The four of them clearly intended to get Diana back and never tell Adalind about it.
Meisner said: “We get Diana back, we end this.” Nick didn’t contradict him with ‘We get Diana back and when this over we give her to her mother’. Nick just let it go and went back to work, expecting to arrive home at the end of the day with everything as usual.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-17-2017
I never saw Nick as trusting Renard, except within their official relationship in the PPB. He was always circumspect about things like the grimm books and the trailer (because he wasn't aware that Renard already knew where they were when they were in the storage yard), even at the height of their alliance back in S03/S04. And Nick knew that Meisner worked for Renard.
Likewise, however helpful Meisner was to Adalind in escaping from the royals in S03, he was still doing it because he worked for Renard. You would think Adalind would have remembered that, but apparently not.
Yes, Adalind seemed to give her trust very, very easily. And Nick took a lot of chances on Renard and to a lesser extent, Meisner, but actually trust them? Can't really see that.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - dicappatore - 09-17-2017
(09-17-2017, 09:00 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: I never saw Nick as trusting Renard, except within their official relationship in the PPB. He was always circumspect about things like the grimm books and the trailer (because he wasn't aware that Renard already knew where they were when they were in the storage yard), even at the height of their alliance back in S03/S04. And Nick knew that Meisner worked for Renard.
Likewise, however helpful Meisner was to Adalind in escaping from the royals in S03, he was still doing it because he worked for Renard. You would think Adalind would have remembered that, but apparently not.
Yes, Adalind seemed to give her trust very, very easily. And Nick took a lot of chances on Renard and to a lesser extent, Meisner, but actually trust them? Can't really see that.
I have stated on plenty of post about the betrayal of Juliette to Nick and the gang. But when you think about it. What Sean Renard did to Meisner, was up there almost with Juliette. Maybe these two backstabbing witches did deserve each other. Backstabbing each, to their hearts content for the rest of their lives.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - syscrash - 09-17-2017
It is amazing how people point out the double standard between how the man are viewed vs how the women are viewed. In season one Sean had the women that raised Nick killed. Yet not one word of how Nick could ever forgive him for that. Juliette only helped in getting Nick mom killed. Sean intent was to kill Mari. Juliette did not intend to kill Kelly.
Nick's mom killed Adalind mom. Why isn't Adalind thinking Juliette for revenge of her moms death. Adalind is shown trying to live up to her mothers expectations. yet when Adalind hooks up with Nick. Anything that happen to her mother her mother deserved it.
If Eve had not saved the group they would have all died. Yet comments never give her credit for being a hero. They all still harp on Kelly's death and the exhibition of her power at the spice shop. Why is it people forgive Adalind but not Eve. Adalind has never saved their lives, Eve has.
Sean killed Meisner and it is accepted. Sean is the one that facilitated Kelly taking Diana. Yet Adalind blames and takes out her revenge on NIck and Juliette.
From the beginning instead of attacking Nick the writers have Juliette be the victim. They send Juliette through a psychological nightmare. Yet she goes through it. Fights to learn the truth even with other placing obstetrical in her path. With all of this with no adverse effect she still continues to say and actually become involved. Yet no one acknowledges how much perseverance that would take. People only focus on how Juliette will not marry Nick.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-18-2017
The formula for TV action heroes used to that they were always single, so that the show could have an occaisional "romance episode," in which the hero would fall for a guest star who would invariably be killed by a bad guy, turn out to be the bad guy or succumb to some incurable fatal disease that miraculously allowed its sufferers to die without losing their looks.
I think some holdouts from that era still writing, and they never did learn how to write for action heroes in stable, committed relationships.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - bart - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 01:02 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The formula for TV action heroes used to that they were always single, so that the show could have an occaisional "romance episode," in which the hero would fall for a guest star who would invariably be killed by a bad guy, turn out to be the bad guy or succumb to some incurable fatal disease that miraculously allowed its sufferers to die without losing their looks.
I think some holdouts from that era still writing, and they never did learn how to write for action heroes in stable, committed relationships.
Its called the Cartwright Syndrome.
RE: Diana Nick and Adalind the family - rpmaluki - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 01:02 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The formula for TV action heroes used to that they were always single, so that the show could have an occaisional "romance episode," in which the hero would fall for a guest star who would invariably be killed by a bad guy, turn out to be the bad guy or succumb to some incurable fatal disease that miraculously allowed its sufferers to die without losing their looks.People care more about watching couples work to get to that stable and committed stage of the relationship, not so much a couple that's already there at 1x01 because there's no investment. The only thing left to do is break them up in order to build them back up again. Romance on tv shows may be tedious for most but it's one of the biggest elements (among other thing) that keep some dramatic shows on air. Romance on Grimm was particularly subpar but that didn't deter people from wanting to see it. The writers dropped the ball several times with N/J, it would have been preferable for him to be single from the beginning if they couldn't fix the underlying issues between them starting with the secrets and lies and the unevenness of affection between them.
I think some holdouts from that era still writing, and they never did learn how to write for action heroes in stable, committed relationships.