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+--- Thread: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 (/Thread-Hadrian-s-Wall-were-the-real-villains-of-season-5)
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Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - Hexenadler - 05-27-2017
The writers might not have intended it, but if you look at their actions with a magnifying glass, it's pretty apparent they weren't any better than Black Claw. In fact, in a lot of ways they were much worse. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Well, everything Meisner did was with "good intentions," but putting Juliette on a leash didn't make her any less dangerous. Nor does invading people's homes and knocking them out with chloroform.
In reality, Hadrian's Wall and Black Claw were two sides of the same coin: Waging endless war on each other, with little care about whoever got in the way.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - MarylikesGrimm - 05-27-2017
(05-27-2017, 06:04 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: The writers might not have intended it, but if you look at their actions with a magnifying glass, it's pretty apparent they weren't any better than Black Claw. In fact, in a lot of ways they were much worse. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Well, everything Meisner did was with "good intentions," but putting Juliette on a leash didn't make her any less dangerous. Nor does invading people's homes and knocking them out with chloroform.
In reality, Hadrian's Wall and Black Claw were two sides of the same coin: Waging endless war on each other, with little care about whoever got in the way.
Both the Royals and the resistance also acted similar to Hadrian's Wall and Black Claw too.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - Mrtrick - 05-27-2017
(05-27-2017, 06:04 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: The writers might not have intended it, but if you look at their actions with a magnifying glass, it's pretty apparent they weren't any better than Black Claw. In fact, in a lot of ways they were much worse. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Well, everything Meisner did was with "good intentions," but putting Juliette on a leash didn't make her any less dangerous. Nor does invading people's homes and knocking them out with chloroform.
In reality, Hadrian's Wall and Black Claw were two sides of the same coin: Waging endless war on each other, with little care about whoever got in the way.
I'll take an ambiguous, government black ops group over a bunch of world conquering fascists any day of the week. Hadrian's Wall is equatable to something like the CIA or NSA. Black Claw is basically a bunch of Nazis. When the first Kehrseite extermination camps start popping up, that morally gray covert ops team is going to start looking pretty good.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - eric - 05-27-2017
I don't quite follow your statement that HW were the villains. They did use some gray area activity, but they were never shown eliminating wessen who were not engaged in criminal activity. BC was willing to kill anyone who got in their way. HW might have been using police procedures outside the Law and Order game book, but they were trying to protect both wessen and humans, BC wanted to kill innocent wessen and humans and seize power in order to make a more "primal world"--see the other world ruled by Z.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - rpmaluki - 05-27-2017
HW has questionable methods of fighting bad guys vs BC with questionable intentions for humans and non violent wesen to the point of committing murder and terrorist acts against them. Yeah, I know which are the villains and it's definitely not HW.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - MarylikesGrimm - 05-28-2017
(05-27-2017, 06:15 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(05-27-2017, 06:04 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: The writers might not have intended it, but if you look at their actions with a magnifying glass, it's pretty apparent they weren't any better than Black Claw. In fact, in a lot of ways they were much worse. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Well, everything Meisner did was with "good intentions," but putting Juliette on a leash didn't make her any less dangerous. Nor does invading people's homes and knocking them out with chloroform.
In reality, Hadrian's Wall and Black Claw were two sides of the same coin: Waging endless war on each other, with little care about whoever got in the way.
Both the Royals and the resistance also acted similar to Hadrian's Wall and Black Claw too.
All four groups default was for far too much torture. Meisner used a car bomb to kill Eric which easily could have killed innocent people. IMO throwing the king out of the helicopter was also risky. What if Juliette had went into the helicopter?
None of these movements seemed to have a political side that wanted to create a common community to reduce violence. Why don't we see wesen newsletters and the like? How are the doctors advancing wesen specific medical care? Even the wesen council itself also seems to kill people by default and seemed to make little effort to educate wesen/grimm about policies to increase compliance and avoid killing.
Rosalee and similar wesen seemed to be the only leaders that at least tried education and communication first in the wesen world to avoid violence.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - Robyn - 05-28-2017
The characters operated in the gray from the beginning. I don’t see HW as standing out from the norm, but rather, as fitting in with the established norm.
HW putting Juliette on a leash isn’t anymore callous than Nick agreeing that getting his Grimm back was worth the possible risk to Juliette. HW breaking into Nick’s home and taking Juliette isn’t worse than Nick taking someone’s baby.
The show positioned the main characters on the right side of the good fight, but there wasn’t a single character who was innocent and pure of heart.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - Hexenadler - 05-28-2017
(05-28-2017, 04:21 AM)Robyn Wrote: The characters operated in the gray from the beginning. I don’t see HW as standing out from the norm, but rather, as fitting in with the established norm.
HW putting Juliette on a leash isn’t anymore callous than Nick agreeing that getting his Grimm back was worth the possible risk to Juliette. HW breaking into Nick’s home and taking Juliette isn’t worse than Nick taking someone’s baby.
The show positioned the main characters on the right side of the good fight, but there wasn’t a single character who was innocent and pure of heart.
There are "gray areas," and then there's lazy plot convenience. If I found out my girlfriend had been forcefully brainwashed into a cold-blooded automaton (even if she got one of my parents killed), I wouldn't have anything to do with the organization responsible. This is another case of the writers turning Nick into a malleable weenie who goes wherever the story demands he goes.
I also can't believe you're comparing Juliette's voluntary decision to help Nick get his Grimm powers back to being brutally beaten inside a cell. We're not talking about what "Eve" chose for herself, because by that point, "Eve" had already been fully indoctrinated to HW's cause. Juliette had no choice about what was done to her before Meisner gave her the Manchurian Candidate treatment. That's like a pod person from "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" saying she's happy about being an emotionless conformist mutant after being absorbed into the collective. Her opinion on what's personally beneficial to her can't be trusted anymore, because it's already been compromised and made biased by an exterior force.
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - MarylikesGrimm - 05-28-2017
(05-28-2017, 03:18 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: There are "gray areas," and then there's lazy plot convenience. If I found out my girlfriend had been forcefully brainwashed into a cold-blooded automaton (even if she got one of my parents killed), I wouldn't have anything to do with the organization responsible. This is another case of the writers turning Nick into a malleable weenie who goes wherever the story demands he goes.
What is your theory about why Trubel supported Eve being at HW after talking to her?
RE: Hadrian's Wall were the real villains of season 5 - Hexenadler - 05-28-2017
(05-28-2017, 03:29 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: What is your theory about why Trubel supported Eve being at HW after talking to her?
Let's not forget Trubel got into a fight with Meisner when she first found out what HW did to Juliette. I think Meisner might have secretly given Trubel a milder form of the same treatment he gave Juliette, judging from how quickly she acquiesced to the situation.