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Grimm view world - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 04-25-2017

It is being debated in this forum about the characters if they are good or bad. If who are the hero and who aren't the hero.

With the end of the show I would like to use this debate to ask each one how do you see the way the writers used an opened for interpretation world view in a way that each one of us were able to see the characters in different ways.

For exemple, many of us see Nick as the hero of the show while others see him as just a corrupted cop.

Personally, I would point out the fact that Nick apparently always choose his own grimm interests in place of his oath as a cop. Can this selfish view (as a way to speak) be seeing as trend in all characters of the show?


RE: Grimm view world - izzy - 04-25-2017

(04-25-2017, 07:00 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: It is being debated in this forum about the characters if they are good or bad. If who are the hero and who aren't the hero.

With the end of the show I would like to use this debate to ask each one how do you see the way the writers used an opened for interpretation world view in a way that each one of us were able to see the characters in different ways.

For exemple, many of us see Nick as the hero of the show while others see him as just a corrupted cop.

Personally, I would point out the fact that Nick apparently always choose his own grimm interests in place of his oath as a cop. Can this selfish view (as a way to speak) be seeing as trend in all characters of the show?

I think Bud was the one outstanding person of character. Given his genetic demeanor I think he exhibited stalwart bravery. He stepped out of genetic character to try and bring a vote at his lodge, he always could be counted on, I do not see where the choices Bud made really were always in his own best interest, especially given the genetic predisposition he possesses. So I do not see bud as selfish.


RE: Grimm view world - eric - 04-26-2017

I see the Grimm world view in line with the saying: in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. The Grimm see a world that no normal human can see. They know there are hidden dangerous creatures in this world. They know no one else sees them and will not believe that they exist. The Grimms' basic choice is between hiding from the creatures to protect themselves(Josh's dad) or to protect regular humans by neutralizing the monsters, by human justice if possible or by vigilante justice if needed. They know their ability passes to some of their children, so one of their duties is to pass on their knowledge on how to deal with these monsters. To ignore their knowledge and hide from the monsters is to be a coward and complicit in the death of other humans. To do their duty and protect the other humans is heroic. They do not expect to be rewarded or acknowledged by normal humans, they are hidden heroes.


RE: Grimm view world - rpmaluki - 04-26-2017

(04-26-2017, 06:57 AM)eric Wrote: I see the Grimm world view in line with the saying: in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. The Grimm see a world that no normal human can see. They know there are hidden dangerous creatures in this world. They know no one else sees them and will not believe that they exist. The Grimms' basic choice is between hiding from the creatures to protect themselves(Josh's dad) or to protect regular humans by neutralizing the monsters, by human justice if possible or by vigilante justice if needed. They know their ability passes to some of their children, so one of their duties is to pass on their knowledge on how to deal with these monsters. To ignore their knowledge and hide from the monsters is to be a coward and complicit in the death of other humans. To do their duty and protect the other humans is heroic. They do not expect to be rewarded or acknowledged by normal humans, they are hidden heroes.
It is one way of looking at it and it certainly is how the show presented it but from a wesen's perspective, particularly the peaceful kind, they are the villains, the boogeyman to be feared and so forth. I lean more towards the middle. Grimms are heroic but have done awful things in the pursuit to protect one group of people instead of protecting all regardless of what they are.


RE: Grimm view world - eric - 04-26-2017

(04-26-2017, 07:02 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:
(04-26-2017, 06:57 AM)eric Wrote: I see the Grimm world view in line with the saying: in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. The Grimm see a world that no normal human can see. They know there are hidden dangerous creatures in this world. They know no one else sees them and will not believe that they exist. The Grimms' basic choice is between hiding from the creatures to protect themselves(Josh's dad) or to protect regular humans by neutralizing the monsters, by human justice if possible or by vigilante justice if needed. They know their ability passes to some of their children, so one of their duties is to pass on their knowledge on how to deal with these monsters. To ignore their knowledge and hide from the monsters is to be a coward and complicit in the death of other humans. To do their duty and protect the other humans is heroic. They do not expect to be rewarded or acknowledged by normal humans, they are hidden heroes.
It is one way of looking at it and it certainly is how the show presented it but from a wesen's perspective, particularly the peaceful kind, they are the villains, the boogeyman to be feared and so forth. I lean more towards the middle. Grimms are heroic but have done awful things in the pursuit to protect one group of people instead of protecting all regardless of what they are.
Nick had to "I am not here to kill you, just to solve a crime". Aside from the turtle people, were there any other entries in the books about killing innocent wessen on purpose? A lot of people are deadly afraid of spiders and snakes, that doesn't the spiders and snakes will kill you unless you threaten them by invading their space.


RE: Grimm view world - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 04-26-2017

(04-25-2017, 09:33 PM)izzy Wrote: I think Bud was the one outstanding person of character. Given his genetic demeanor I think he exhibited stalwart bravery. He stepped out of genetic character to try and bring a vote at his lodge, he always could be counted on, I do not see where the choices Bud made really were always in his own best interest, especially given the genetic predisposition he possesses. So I do not see bud as selfish.

I confess I have forgotten about Bud. You really have a point about him. He is a person that goes against his own nature to do what he believes it is the right thing. Maybe he is the real hero of the show. Don’t you think? Big Grin


RE: Grimm view world - izzy - 04-26-2017

(04-26-2017, 08:40 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:
(04-25-2017, 09:33 PM)izzy Wrote: I think Bud was the one outstanding person of character. Given his genetic demeanor I think he exhibited stalwart bravery. He stepped out of genetic character to try and bring a vote at his lodge, he always could be counted on, I do not see where the choices Bud made really were always in his own best interest, especially given the genetic predisposition he possesses. So I do not see bud as selfish.

I confess I have forgotten about Bud. You really have a point about him. He is a person that goes against his own nature to do what he believes it is the right thing. Maybe he is the real hero of the show. Don’t you think? Big Grin

At one point I had high hopes for Monroe and that the series would end with him opening some type of youth camp for young Blats coming of age where he taught them to alter their bestial nature. Unfortunately, he like others, seemed to get infected by the taint that is the Grimm.


RE: Grimm view world - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 04-26-2017

(04-26-2017, 02:43 PM)izzy Wrote:
(04-26-2017, 08:40 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:
(04-25-2017, 09:33 PM)izzy Wrote: I think Bud was the one outstanding person of character. Given his genetic demeanor I think he exhibited stalwart bravery. He stepped out of genetic character to try and bring a vote at his lodge, he always could be counted on, I do not see where the choices Bud made really were always in his own best interest, especially given the genetic predisposition he possesses. So I do not see bud as selfish.

I confess I have forgotten about Bud. You really have a point about him. He is a person that goes against his own nature to do what he believes it is the right thing. Maybe he is the real hero of the show. Don’t you think? Big Grin

At one point I had high hopes for Monroe and that the series would end with him opening some type of youth camp for young Blats coming of age where he taught them to alter their bestial nature. Unfortunately, he like others, seemed to get infected by the taint that is the Grimm.

Monroe could have being the hero of the show. The one who save the day in the right moment. The one who showed Nick the right path or something like that. Maybe Hank and Wu could have being those supposed to push Nick from totally corrupted cop to something more equilibrated concerning his responsibility with his oath.

But I think one important think to talk about here is that the path choose by the characters was actually the path choose by the show runners. I think they create the story trying to equilibrate basically two things:
1. Their own view world. If they have more left position, for example, they would avoid creating a story that end up being propaganda against this position.
2. The view world they believe it is the view world of their public. If the writers believe their audience is a more conservative people, for example, they would try to avoid positions to clear against those conservative positions since they would like to avoid losing that audience.
Considering this, I think the grimm creators tried to stayed in a more neutral position as possible since the show was meant to be aired in different countries (and thins means in different cultures).
Actually, I don’t if neutral is the right word here. I think the correct is to say the grimm show runners avoid to clearly define some positions letting it open for the audience in an effort to get as most different people as they could. I don’t know if it was conscious or unconscious, but I think that things like that happened.

I can use as example the Nick’s position as hero as we talked in another thread. As you said, the writers left it open to the viewers to say if Nick was or not the hero based on each own view world.

How do you see those afirmations?

(04-26-2017, 06:57 AM)eric Wrote: I see the Grimm world view in line with the saying: in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. The Grimm see a world that no normal human can see. They know there are hidden dangerous creatures in this world. They know no one else sees them and will not believe that they exist. The Grimms' basic choice is between hiding from the creatures to protect themselves(Josh's dad) or to protect regular humans by neutralizing the monsters, by human justice if possible or by vigilante justice if needed. They know their ability passes to some of their children, so one of their duties is to pass on their knowledge on how to deal with these monsters. To ignore their knowledge and hide from the monsters is to be a coward and complicit in the death of other humans. To do their duty and protect the other humans is heroic. They do not expect to be rewarded or acknowledged by normal humans, they are hidden heroes.
Hi Eric.

If I got it right you see GRIMM as having a destiny they can't avoid. They can hide, like Josh dad. But they can't avoid.

Am I right?


RE: Grimm view world - eric - 04-27-2017

(04-26-2017, 03:10 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:
(04-26-2017, 02:43 PM)izzy Wrote:
(04-26-2017, 08:40 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:
(04-25-2017, 09:33 PM)izzy Wrote: I think Bud was the one outstanding person of character. Given his genetic demeanor I think he exhibited stalwart bravery. He stepped out of genetic character to try and bring a vote at his lodge, he always could be counted on, I do not see where the choices Bud made really were always in his own best interest, especially given the genetic predisposition he possesses. So I do not see bud as selfish.

I confess I have forgotten about Bud. You really have a point about him. He is a person that goes against his own nature to do what he believes it is the right thing. Maybe he is the real hero of the show. Don’t you think? Big Grin

At one point I had high hopes for Monroe and that the series would end with him opening some type of youth camp for young Blats coming of age where he taught them to alter their bestial nature. Unfortunately, he like others, seemed to get infected by the taint that is the Grimm.

Monroe could have being the hero of the show. The one who save the day in the right moment. The one who showed Nick the right path or something like that. Maybe Hank and Wu could have being those supposed to push Nick from totally corrupted cop to something more equilibrated concerning his responsibility with his oath.

But I think one important think to talk about here is that the path choose by the characters was actually the path choose by the show runners. I think they create the story trying to equilibrate basically two things:
1. Their own view world. If they have more left position, for example, they would avoid creating a story that end up being propaganda against this position.
2. The view world they believe it is the view world of their public. If the writers believe their audience is a more conservative people, for example, they would try to avoid positions to clear against those conservative positions since they would like to avoid losing that audience.
Considering this, I think the grimm creators tried to stayed in a more neutral position as possible since the show was meant to be aired in different countries (and thins means in different cultures).
Actually, I don’t if neutral is the right word here. I think the correct is to say the grimm show runners avoid to clearly define some positions letting it open for the audience in an effort to get as most different people as they could. I don’t know if it was conscious or unconscious, but I think that things like that happened.

I can use as example the Nick’s position as hero as we talked in another thread. As you said, the writers left it open to the viewers to say if Nick was or not the hero based on each own view world.

How do you see those afirmations?

(04-26-2017, 06:57 AM)eric Wrote: I see the Grimm world view in line with the saying: in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. The Grimm see a world that no normal human can see. They know there are hidden dangerous creatures in this world. They know no one else sees them and will not believe that they exist. The Grimms' basic choice is between hiding from the creatures to protect themselves(Josh's dad) or to protect regular humans by neutralizing the monsters, by human justice if possible or by vigilante justice if needed. They know their ability passes to some of their children, so one of their duties is to pass on their knowledge on how to deal with these monsters. To ignore their knowledge and hide from the monsters is to be a coward and complicit in the death of other humans. To do their duty and protect the other humans is heroic. They do not expect to be rewarded or acknowledged by normal humans, they are hidden heroes.
Hi Eric.

If I got it right you see GRIMM as having a destiny they can't avoid. They can hide, like Josh dad. But they can't avoid.

Am I right?
Yes.


RE: Grimm view world - jsgrimm45 - 04-27-2017

We come to a view because we all color are outlook on our own lives as we have lived them. I.E. I'm a Vietnam vet so war movies I see more than non vets. Most war movies I see the errors the wrongs and I say so what it was just a movie, but not always the movie Platoon was rated high, but I was there in that time frame and with that Division. So that movie tick me off no end because it was not even close to what was happening then.

Point being the ones on the forum with police family see Nick as wrong because they may see it as a showing police in a bad light so Nick can't be a hero. I see Grimm as fantasy so I can see him and Trubel as the heros, but I do understand their point.

The other characters on the series are given a pass (IMO) as hero or anti hero because they only the backdrop to Nick. Sean was the only character who didn't fit either group, but ended up a hero for working with Nick to save Diana.

Adalind, Juliette/Eve, and Rosalee were to show again IMO show women trying to have both career and home. Adalind and Rosalee ended the series with family, Eve was the unknown how do we treat this character? She is of interest because her ending is a real unknown. In a world view what do we think happened? Myself she is still working with HW. We were told the BC was ended but we also was told that this type thing comes and goes so HW would remain.

Anyone want to apply lack of info to Trubel?