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+--- Thread: Grimm the Review. (/Thread-Grimm-the-Review)
RE: Grimm the Review. - izzy - 04-24-2017
(04-24-2017, 12:20 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: I have just the same feeling.
I would add the base plot line (the wesen hided among us and the grimm being the only one able to see them) is a very good bases for a great story. I think the problem in the last seasons is that the writers got lost in a bunch of arcs about parallel topics forgetting this main one.
I would like to see the main mythology better explored in the show.
I totally concur with you assessment. If ever a concept could use a clean reboot this is it. As you said, the base concept was awesome and there was plenty of material to work with. However the last couple of season may have diminished a lot of the goodwill the series once had making a reboot a bit more problematic.
I also fear their idea of reboot would be to continue the story line with another also-an acting talent like Bitsie in her Eve persona verses a different locale, cast, and possibly time period.
RE: Grimm the Review. - Hexenadler - 04-24-2017
(04-24-2017, 11:41 AM)izzy Wrote: I actually have been working on an in-depth review, but briefly believe the show would have been well served if it had wrapped up at the end of Season 3. The first 3 seasons were very good, with season 4 starting the great decline, season 5 simply being asinine, and culminating with season 6 simply not being worth viewing.
However the first 3 seasons are highly recommended. It is just a shame the creative team did not end the series on high note and instead sullied their creation by allowing it to outlive the ability of the writers to create quality scripts.
I think you've touched on what went wrong. G&K felt they needed to "shake things up" after three seasons, but they did so without any regard to how the characters and their relationships had been built up to that point. Flip-flopping Juliette and Adalind's roles was simply too much of a stretch. All they managed to do was knock the show right off the rails and alienate a good chunk of its viewers in the process.
RE: Grimm the Review. - irukandji - 04-24-2017
(04-24-2017, 02:33 PM)izzy Wrote:(04-24-2017, 12:20 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: I have just the same feeling.
I would add the base plot line (the wesen hided among us and the grimm being the only one able to see them) is a very good bases for a great story. I think the problem in the last seasons is that the writers got lost in a bunch of arcs about parallel topics forgetting this main one.
I would like to see the main mythology better explored in the show.
I totally concur with you assessment. If ever a concept could use a clean reboot this is it. As you said, the base concept was awesome and there was plenty of material to work with. However the last couple of season may have diminished a lot of the goodwill the series once had making a reboot a bit more problematic.
I also fear their idea of reboot would be to continue the story line with another also-an acting talent like Bitsie in her Eve persona verses a different locale, cast, and possibly time period.
You know, I concur with this as well. Just to get some detail on the series as part of a rebuttal, I listened to a couple of episodes from season 2. While Nick still ended up killing a wesen instead of trying to bring him to justice, the episodes were actually quite good.
Adalind was at the peak of her evilness and she was absolutely a joy to listen to as she was tormenting Nick. There was a freshness to the series that sadly was lacking beginning with season 4.
RE: Grimm the Review. - thecdn - 04-25-2017
(04-24-2017, 10:04 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: Read this article sometime (if you can make the effort) to see a better explanation why. I don't expect it to convince you; I'm sure you'll probably ignore it, or try to rationalize it with sophistry and double-talk.
Can't take the time to read it, too busy rationalizing and sophistrying.
RE: Grimm the Review. - MarylikesGrimm - 04-28-2017
(04-24-2017, 03:27 PM)irukandji Wrote:(04-24-2017, 02:33 PM)izzy Wrote:(04-24-2017, 12:20 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: I have just the same feeling.
I would add the base plot line (the wesen hided among us and the grimm being the only one able to see them) is a very good bases for a great story. I think the problem in the last seasons is that the writers got lost in a bunch of arcs about parallel topics forgetting this main one.
I would like to see the main mythology better explored in the show.
I totally concur with you assessment. If ever a concept could use a clean reboot this is it. As you said, the base concept was awesome and there was plenty of material to work with. However the last couple of season may have diminished a lot of the goodwill the series once had making a reboot a bit more problematic.
I also fear their idea of reboot would be to continue the story line with another also-an acting talent like Bitsie in her Eve persona verses a different locale, cast, and possibly time period.
You know, I concur with this as well. Just to get some detail on the series as part of a rebuttal, I listened to a couple of episodes from season 2. While Nick still ended up killing a wesen instead of trying to bring him to justice, the episodes were actually quite good.
Adalind was at the peak of her evilness and she was absolutely a joy to listen to as she was tormenting Nick. There was a freshness to the series that sadly was lacking beginning with season 4.
Season 4 is when Nick was tormented by Juliette because he loved her so she could hurt him. In season 2, Adalind was not able to really hurt Nick because he did not care about her. Nick was more upset when Adalind left him in season 5 and he ended killing a lot more people to get Adalind and his son back than in seasons 2.
(04-24-2017, 02:52 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Flip-flopping Juliette and Adalind's roles was simply too much of a stretch.
I never saw any flip-flopping except being Nick's girlfriend. Juliette/Eve and every version were strong and driven woman who was involved in everything. Except for season 2, Adalind was a follower that was fixed on family or a man.
RE: Grimm the Review. - irukandji - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 10:01 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-24-2017, 03:27 PM)irukandji Wrote:(04-24-2017, 02:33 PM)izzy Wrote: [quote='Adriano Neres Rodrigues' pid='55823' dateline='1493061639']
I have just the same feeling.
I would add the base plot line (the wesen hided among us and the grimm being the only one able to see them) is a very good bases for a great story. I think the problem in the last seasons is that the writers got lost in a bunch of arcs about parallel topics forgetting this main one.
I would like to see the main mythology better explored in the show.
I totally concur with you assessment. If ever a concept could use a clean reboot this is it. As you said, the base concept was awesome and there was plenty of material to work with. However the last couple of season may have diminished a lot of the goodwill the series once had making a reboot a bit more problematic.
I also fear their idea of reboot would be to continue the story line with another also-an acting talent like Bitsie in her Eve persona verses a different locale, cast, and possibly time period.
You know, I concur with this as well. Just to get some detail on the series as part of a rebuttal, I listened to a couple of episodes from season 2. While Nick still ended up killing a wesen instead of trying to bring him to justice, the episodes were actually quite good.
Adalind was at the peak of her evilness and she was absolutely a joy to listen to as she was tormenting Nick. There was a freshness to the series that sadly was lacking beginning with season 4.
Season 4 is when Nick was tormented by Juliette because he loved her so she could hurt him. In season 2, Adalind was not able to really hurt Nick because he did not care about her. Nick was more upset when Adalind left him in season 5 and he ended killing a lot more people to get Adalind and his son back than in seasons 2.
The show probably should have ended with season 3. It seemed like the writers ran out of ideas and as a result, the show began to spin out of control.
RE: Grimm the Review. - MarylikesGrimm - 04-28-2017
(04-24-2017, 09:42 AM)thecdn Wrote:(04-24-2017, 08:46 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: After that, they confirmed their pro-rape stance by having Nick & Adalind make puppy eyes at each other, and the rest of the series went downhill from there.
Yes, the creators of a series on a major network in the 21st Century are pro-rape! Why didn't I realize that before?
It's bad enough people on this forum have taken a deceptive event that could not have happened in real life and have thrown the word rape around so much that it has lost it's true, horrible meaning.
But accusing the creators of being pro-rape? That's pathetic.
Mary: Sorry, it does happen in real life. Men who are robbing houses for example have hid in a dark bedroom and had sex with the guy's girlfriend. Some people have a MO of using on fake identities like being doctor and such to have sex.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/is-lying-to-get-laid-a-form-of-sexual-assault
NEIL MCARTHUR
Sep 5 2016, 12:00am
Today, American laws generally make two kinds of sexual deception illegal: cases where someone impersonates a person's partner (by sneaking into their bedroom at night, for instance), and cases where someone such as a doctor tricks a patient into thinking a sex act is actually some sort of medical procedure.
End of NEIL MCARTHUR
Neil McArthur is the director of the Centre for Professional and Applied Ethics at University of Manitoba, where his work focuses on sexual ethics and the philosophy of sexuality.
Mary: Sorry, it does happen in other shows. Spike tried to rape Buffy and seriously hurt her and they became one of the show's top couple afterwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_and_Laura
Luke and Laura syndrome is despite having been raped by a drunken Luke, Laura falls in love with him. The couple wed at the end of the hour-long show on November 17, 1981; the event was watched by 30 million viewers and remains the highest-rated hour in American soap opera history. Viewers watched as the show followed their marriage through two decades and gave them two children. Today, their union still has a presence in fictional town Port Charles. In 1996, TV Guide included the wedding of Luke and Laura as part of its "100 Most Memorable Moments in TV History," ranking it number 35.
end of wiki
Mary: Of course, in Grimm, one is a grimm and one is a hexenbiest and the grimm helped kidnap her child and the hexenbiest was being blackmailed into doing it for her child. One thing I like about grimm, it is messy like real life and there is a rarely simple black and white answer to everything. Yes, I would rather had baby Kelly come from a one night stand.
RE: Grimm the Review. - rpmaluki - 04-28-2017
I think they ran out of ideas as early as season 1. I don't remember fondly looking back at S2. I hated so much of the amnesia/obsession arc, I'm surprised I survived it and kept watching. Everything else after that seemed amazing in retrospect until BC but even that wasn't as bad as S2 for me.
RE: Grimm the Review. - Hexenadler - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 11:02 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Mary: Sorry, it does happen in other shows. Spike tried to rape Buffy and seriously hurt her and they became one of the show's top couple afterwards.
I'm not a Buffy fan, so I didn't know about that particular plot development until now. Yeesh.
Between Spike & Buffy and Nick & Adalind (G&K have both worked with Joss Whedon in the past and are clearly influenced by him), it's hard not to notice a disturbing pattern at work.
RE: Grimm the Review. - MarylikesGrimm - 04-28-2017
(04-28-2017, 11:23 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:Recent article on it.(04-28-2017, 11:02 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Mary: Sorry, it does happen in other shows. Spike tried to rape Buffy and seriously hurt her and they became one of the show's top couple afterwards.
I'm not a Buffy fan, so I didn't know about that particular plot development until now. Yeesh.
Between Spike & Buffy and Nick & Adalind (G&K have both worked with Joss Whedon in the past and are clearly influenced by him), it's hard not to notice a disturbing pattern at work.
by Vivian Kane | 4:36 pm, March 9th, 2017
buffy scene
If you’re a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan (which is the same as saying ‘if you’re a human being living in the world,’ right?), A.V. Club has a truly fantastic interview with James Marsters, aka Spike. As part of their “11 Questions” series, he talks in depth about his experience on the show, the trajectory of the character, and the relevance of the show both then and now. He speaks of the show with such fondness, and such intelligence, the whole interview is a real gift for Buffy fans.
Take, for instance, the brutal honesty with which Marsters discusses what is probably the most controversial–and one of the most painful–scenes in the show’s entire run.
The sixth season of Buffy is notoriously dark. That season (spoilers, if you’re 15 years behind on the show) sees Buffy resurrected and running away, Willow’s addiction, Giles’ departure, Xander leaving Anya at the alter, and Tara’s death. As Marsters describes it, “there were just no rules anymore,” to the point where he says he became afraid to read the scripts because he “was going to have to do whatever they thought of to whoever they thought of to do it.” Joss Whedon was plunging into the darkest parts of every character.
He once told me, “It’s not about giving the audience what they want. It’s about giving the audience what you think they need.” And, for me, the most dramatic example of that would be the bathroom scene.
That scene, in which Spike tries to get Buffy to say she loves him, and ends up nearly raping her, is devastating to watch. And as Marsters describes it, the process by which they came up with the idea for the scene was pretty devastating as well.
Apparently, a lot of not just season six’s darkness, but the entire show’s, came from the writers’ own experiences.
by Vivian Kane | 4:36 pm, March 9th, 2017
https://www.themarysue.com/james-marsters-tells-the-story-behind-that-buffy-scene-that-made-you-hate-spike/