+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Episode Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Episode-Discussions)
+---- Forum: Season 6 (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Season-6)
+---- Thread: S6E13 - The End (/Thread-S6E13-The-End)
RE: S6E13 - The End - irukandji - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 07:44 AM)eric Wrote: I don't see how wanting to marry Farley would require a selfish motive. If you are going to get married for a selfish reason, please do not get married. The book indicated that hisembers of a safe group "I put away my sword and looked for a way to deal with them." Honestly, I think we can all admit we would kill someone we thought was about to kill us, no questions asked.
I didn't say wanting to get married is a selfish motive. I said Marie's affection for Farley was a selfish motive, not an altruistic one.
If it were purely altruistic, Marie would have been considering the consequences of her actions as a result of the affection, not only for herself, but her sister and the wesen. You forget that the only reason Marie did not marry Farley is because Kelly needed her to take care of Nick. Otherwise, she would have ended up as Mrs. and not given a hoot about who was upset as a result.
(09-16-2018, 07:44 AM)eric Wrote: Nick never killed normal wessen, even those whose family types might be dangerous, unless he had to protect himself.
He didn't kill Adalind, who presented pretty much a consistent threat to him during the first four years of the series.
RE: S6E13 - The End - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-16-2018
Offhand, I don't recall anyone ever calling Marie "altruistic." We know so little about her that it's quite possible that Nick was the only person who knew her who didn't see her as that grouchy woman who ran the local library.
As for Nick not killing Adalind, how many times during the entire run of the series did Nick face off against Adalind in a situation where she was going to kill him right now if he didn't kill her first? That's the "threat" that justifies the use of deadly force.
RE: S6E13 - The End - irukandji - 09-16-2018
Well, I'm having some issue with interpreting what is considered a threat. At first it was stated that Nick in S01 had a definite block against killing people in cold blood who weren't presenting an immediate threat. Then the definition was somewhat changed to a "threat" as someone who's about to kill you in the next few seconds, not someone who's likely to try it again someday.
I interpreted a threat as also including those who Nick is close to. For instance, Adalind threatened Hank's death if Nick didn't hand over the key. Nick would take that as an immediate threat because it put Hank in mortal danger.
Going further, Adalind poisoned Juliette for no reason at all. According the series, it was a dire and immediate threat, necessitating Catherine and Renard to step in and assist in saving her.
I don't disagree with you that a threat to his life is an immediate threat. But I also consider these two episodes as impacting Nick much more deeply because these are threats that will result in circumstances that will hurt him badly and at the same time leave him alive to suffer.
Quote:Offhand, I don't recall anyone ever calling Marie "altruistic." We know so little about her that it's quite possible that Nick was the only person who knew her who didn't see her as that grouchy woman who ran the local library.
I'm just saying I don't think it was her time with Farley that gave her the insight to pass on the immortal words to Nick to hunt *bad* wesen only.
RE: S6E13 - The End - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-16-2018
I didn't think that Marie's time with Farley had anything to do with giving her that "insight." I think she would have to have already had it to have that time at all.
As for the definition of a "threat" that justifies the use of deadly force, it's when such force is believed to be the only way to stop someone who is in the act of causing or attempting to cause immediate harm, and not because they might or probably would some time in the future. Perhaps, considering how often I see reports of police shooting people who turn out to be unarmed and just trying to make a call on their cellphones or watch TV in their own living rooms, that's not as clear as I thought it was.
RE: S6E13 - The End - irukandji - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 07:56 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: As for the definition of a "threat" that justifies the use of deadly force, it's when such force is believed to be the only way to stop someone who is in the act of causing or attempting to cause immediate harm, and not because they might or probably would some time in the future. Perhaps, considering how often I see reports of police shooting people who turn out to be unarmed and just trying to make a call on their cellphones or watch TV in their own living rooms, that's not as clear as I thought it was.
Before she ever poisoned Juliette and Hank, Adalind attempted to inflict immedate harm. Nick knew that.
(09-16-2018, 07:56 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: I didn't think that Marie's time with Farley had anything to do with giving her that "insight." I think she would have to have already had it to have that time at all.
I don't think so. It seems these grimm are hardwired to kill wesen without determining who's good and who's bad.
RE: S6E13 - The End - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-16-2018
That's what arrest and trial is for, especially when you're a LEO.
Am I really needing to explain this to someone who's complained in the past that Nick was a bad cop?
RE: S6E13 - The End - irukandji - 09-16-2018
(09-16-2018, 08:16 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: That's what arrest and trial is for, especially when you're a LEO.
Am I really needing to explain this to someone who's complained in the past that Nick was a bad cop?
I'm talking about when Adalind attempted to murder Marie in the hospital.
RE: S6E13 - The End - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-16-2018
I would think there's a good chance that would qualify as an instance where shooting would have been justifiable. But Nick missed his chance when he took that shot in his arm.
RE: S6E13 - The End - irukandji - 09-16-2018
Nick knew Adalind was an imminent threat and she remained an imminent threat in his eyes. There would be no way he could ever arrest her or bring her to trial for poisoning both Hank and Juliette.
RE: S6E13 - The End - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-16-2018
Running into that situation again and again is probably why by the end of S04 he evolved to the point where he could have Kenneth abducted by Wu so he could challenge him to a deathmatch. But in S01 he was nowhere near to being able to do that.