+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. (/Thread-So-Diana-doesn-t-know-Juliette-betrayed-Kelly)
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Robyn - 02-18-2017
The show certainly doesn’t deal with redemption, punishment, or whatever unless a specific story needs it. One might consider Adalind losing Diana is punishment for her actions and choices, but I don’t see evidence of the characters or writers presenting that opinion. Cause and effect maybe, but not punishment.
I don’t know why Juliette’s actions would be any worse than Adalind’s or Renard’s. Juliette’s not the first character to be let off the hook because the creative team wanted to move on with the stories. Renard was the mastermind behind Marie’s assassination attempt and the spell that almost killed Hank. But because the show wanted to move him closer to the Grimm’s circle, Renard returned a key, told Nick he wouldn’t work against him anymore, and Nick said okay. And I don’t remember much hoopla about Renard suddenly becoming an assumed ‘good guy’.
That’s about as much ‘redemption’ as you’ll find on Grimm - “here’s your key.”
----
As for Game of Thrones imitating or providing commentary on Middle East conflicts - isn’t the show simply utilizing the world’s violent history, whether current, centuries or millennia? Global history provides a smorgasbord of material for a show like GOT.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - syscrash - 02-18-2017
I will agree with you that Grimm does not portray the changing of alliances in a realistic fashion. On GOT they explain how and why the change. They even show because we are on the same side and work together. The characters do not forget the past. But if it is to their advantage they will change sides. On Grimm they ignore the past when they change sides.
Kwu9888 you asked
Quote:OK syscrash I know I'm going to regret this but have to ask how is Adalind as culpable as Juliette.lets not forget if not for Adalind the Royals would have had no idea it was Kelly they where after. Adalind came to Portland with the Royals to help create the plan to recover Diana from Kelly. Remember when Adalind went to the house to kidnap Juliette. She was following Viktors instruction on using back channel diplomacy. Why I say Adalind is as culpable as Juliette. Is because Adalind initiated the ground work. Without Adalind help the Royals would have never came to Portland or been looking for Kelly. There where convinced the resistance had Diana. Juliette only finished what Adalind started.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - New Guy - 02-18-2017
(02-18-2017, 01:58 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:Hi Mary,(02-18-2017, 01:46 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(02-18-2017, 01:11 PM)syscrash Wrote: For one the show went out of it's way to absolve Juliette.
Yeah, uh...no it didn't. If the show wanted to "absolve" Juliette, the writers would have put together an episode by now where Juliette is kidnapped and placed on trial by relatives of the neighbors who were slaughtered on the night she sold Kelly out to the Royals. Or at the very least, she would have been haunted by visions of Kelly's decapitated head, the same way Renard was haunted by Meisner.
G&K simply cooked up a ridiculous persona for Juliette to hide behind so she could conveniently project her own crimes away from herself. It was a stupid, insulting idea, and I still want to punch them both for it.
Diana: “Sometimes I miss my other mommy too. Her name is Kelly just like my brother’s. You know her, don’t you? I don’t know where she is anymore, do you?”
Grimm: Top Quotes from Blind Love (Season 6 Episode 7)
Diana has risen to be the only character on the show that is honest to herself and to the others. She is very discerning, loyal and powerful. I expect her to be persistent in questioning FrankenEve. If FrankenEve is evasive or lies, Diana will discover the truth and proceed with what she deems to be appropriate retribution.
We have ample evidence that King Frederick recruited Kenneth to kidnap Diana and to kill the Grimm(s) who took her from Victor. We know for certain that Kenneth recruited Hexenette to betray Kelly and that Hexenette was in the hotel room while the plans were being made. She provided many details about Nick, the house and the neighbors. She was with Kenneth while the Verat Thugs called in as they murdered the neighbors. She showed no emotion at all. She did show her moral depravity by celebrating the murders with Kenneth in Nick's bed. Then she waited in the bedroom until Kelly's dying wails ended. When Fred learned Nick was still alive, he sent Kenneth back to finish his job. Kenneth wanted Hexenette to help, she said nothing, but the king said her job was done. Then Hexenette shows up in the house and attempts to kill Nick.
Note how Diana's question caused FrankenEve to view a memory of Kelly's head in the box.
Oh gee. I forgot, that was Juliette's memory, not Eve's.
Will Diana get some red sheets for FrankenEve's bed? Maybe Grossante was such fun she will want to "play" with Auntie Eve?
N G
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - syscrash - 02-18-2017
NewGuy again you are making things up.
You can not sight one statement that says the king wanted anyone dead. You are making assumptions based on what you want to be true.
As for the neighbors the varret only said the positions are secure. Nothing about that says anyone is dead.
when Juliette sleep with Kenneth there was nothing said that anyone had died.
when Juliette was upstairs the only sounds was the fight going on downstairs. Even Diana who was downstairs did not know Kelly was dead. So how would Juliette upstairs have known.
The fact that you add a bunch of bombastic adjective to make you opinion even more incendiary is a practice used when someone has no argument.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - MarylikesGrimm - 02-19-2017
(02-18-2017, 07:26 PM)syscrash Wrote: Even Diana who was downstairs did not know Kelly was dead. So how would Juliette upstairs have known.
Whose memory of Kelly's head in a box do you think we are seeing?
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - rpmaluki - 02-19-2017
I think Juliette/Eve remembers what happened to Kelly but for lack of footage, they are using the scene where Nick finds the box, that's why we only see hands opening the box because it's ambiguous enough to pass as Eve's actual memory. Juliette came down stairs after the fighting was over so she would have seen Kelly's dead body whether before or after the beheading. Nick opening the box is the only footage we have that confirmed Kelly's death, I get them reusing to drive the point to create tension because now we know Diana is unaware of Kelly's death, the woman she considers her other mommy. She has a very a strong like for people who hurt mommies and has a habit of killing them. That was very deliberate, how it plays out, because you know Diana's going to find out about Kelly's death, is the big question. Kenneth and the king are already dead, that leaves Juliette as co-conspirator to Kelly's betrayal.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Robyn - 02-19-2017
We might be underestimating Diana, or the show may be ignoring her intuitive nature for the story. Diana is smart and cunning like her father. She does little for the sake of just doing it.
Repressed and selective memory only goes so far. Diana sensed the deaths in the loft, knew Meisner was dead, and never expressed any fear of Bonaparte. It makes more sense that Diana knows Kelly is dead and the players involved. She may have been baiting Juliette with talk of her ‘other mommy’ and that Nick has moved on with Adalind and their son is the namesake of the woman she killed.
Diana was happy and smiling while she and Adalind were packing, but when Nick intruded announcing they were packed for ‘their’ trip, Diana’s demeanor immediately changed and she had a rather displeased expression.
I hadn’t thought about it until discussing the source of the mirror monster with MarylikesGrimm, but it’s at least possible that Diana is behind what’s happening to Juliette - either deliberately or subconsciously. Diana may have very well been a child bragging about knowing a secret, but she appeared to go out of her way to innocently explain to her father why she couldn’t tell him about the symbols and the tunnel.
If this is the case, I don’t think Diana is avenging ‘her other mommy’, I think she hasn’t given up on having her parents under the same roof with her.
But the question is whether this would sufficiently be about Nick. If not, this isn’t what’s happening.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - MarylikesGrimm - 02-19-2017
(02-19-2017, 06:53 AM)Robyn Wrote: Diana was happy and smiling while she and Adalind were packing, but when Nick intruded announcing they were packed for ‘their’ trip, Diana’s demeanor immediately changed and she had a rather displeased expression.
I hadn’t thought about it until discussing the source of the mirror monster with MarylikesGrimm, but it’s at least possible that Diana is behind what’s happening to Juliette - either deliberately or subconsciously. Diana may have very well been a child bragging about knowing a secret, but she appeared to go out of her way to innocently explain to her father why she couldn’t tell him about the symbols and the tunnel.
If this is the case, I don’t think Diana is avenging ‘her other mommy’, I think she hasn’t given up on having her parents under the same roof with her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuIj_vpF15w&t=26s
Diana's bye to Nick seemed honest too. IMO Diana's thinking now includes more than strangers vs blood relatives. She sees Nick as a long time family friend so any plan she comes up consciously would not try to hurt Nick too much and protect baby Kelly unlike what happened to mommy Kelly. You are right that subconsciously in theory that mirror monster could be created by Diana because of issues she has with Eve or even Nick but she does not feel she can attack Nick directly.
Diana seems consciously committed to not being kidnapped again and not losing baby Kelly the way she lost mama Kelly and if possible allowing Nick to be a family friend where he could see baby Kelly too.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - rpmaluki - 02-19-2017
I don't think Diana's given up on her parents, she's bidding her time but unlike anyone else before Nick, she hasn't found an opening (hurting Adalind) to get him out of the way.
I do think she really cared for Kelly.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - jsgrimm45 - 02-19-2017
(02-19-2017, 07:25 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: I don't think Diana's given up on her parents, she's bidding her time but unlike anyone else before Nick, she hasn't found an opening (hurting Adalind) to get him out of the way.IMO I would say giving up is in Diana's makeup, but seeing a more relaxed mom may be getting though to Diana. At the fome in the last episode she looked to be fine with the current way things are, and Sean to my surprise hasn't used her to spy on or work against Nick.
I do think she really cared for Kelly.
I would agree that Diana cared for Kelly why because we know she takes in everything even as a baby, she doesn't know what happened to Kelly is a mystery. Only way I could see it Kenneth took Kelly outside before killing her. This is based on a couple things one Meisner said the found where Kenneth hide the body, and two no blood in the house around Diana, but was on Kenneth.