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+--- Thread: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. (/Thread-So-Diana-doesn-t-know-Juliette-betrayed-Kelly)
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Robyn - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:I'm not sure what the timing of Nick getting his Grimm back and Adalind being released from the Hexenbiest prison has to do with it.(02-26-2017, 06:19 AM)Robyn Wrote: Consider Adalind’s situation at the time. Her Hexenbiest - what she believed her only viable protection - had been killed, and she’s alone while Nick & Renard have become allies. Factor in her immaturity and it’s not a stretch that’d she’d be a bit unbalanced. Adalind’s future had an opportunity to diverge from her past when she felt the mother/child bond with Diana. Adalind didn’t change because of Nick. Kelly, Renard, Nick and his group derailed the life change Adalind had already chosen.
After Nick got his powers back was about the same time Adalind was removed from the hexenbeist prison by Viktor and given food.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Highway_of_Tears
The scenes of Adalind on the run with Meisner expressed she had already chosen to make a better life for herself and her daughter. Kelly realized on the plane that Adalind was willing to die protecting her daughter.
Adalind's mental/emotional instability after Diana was kidnapped wouldn't have occurred had Diana not been kidnapped. Maybe I misunderstood your initial post and we're talking about two different events/reactions.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - MarylikesGrimm - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 06:52 AM)Robyn Wrote:(02-26-2017, 06:43 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:I'm not sure what the timing or Nick getting his Grimm back and Adalind being released from the Hexenbiest prison has to do with it.(02-26-2017, 06:19 AM)Robyn Wrote: Consider Adalind’s situation at the time. Her Hexenbiest - what she believed her only viable protection - had been killed, and she’s alone while Nick & Renard have become allies. Factor in her immaturity and it’s not a stretch that’d she’d be a bit unbalanced. Adalind’s future had an opportunity to diverge from her past when she felt the mother/child bond with Diana. Adalind didn’t change because of Nick. Kelly, Renard, Nick and his group derailed the life change Adalind had already chosen.
After Nick got his powers back was about the same time Adalind was removed from the hexenbeist prison by Viktor and given food.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Highway_of_Tears
The scenes of Adalind on the run with Meisner expressed she had already chosen to make a better life for herself and her daughter. Kelly realized on the plane that Adalind was willing to die protecting her daughter.
Adalind's mental/emotional instability after Diana was kidnapped wouldn't have occurred had Diana not been kidnapped. Maybe I misunderstood your initial post and we're talking about two different events/reactions.
IMO after the hexenbiest fight, Adalind started to try to change her methods but not her goals. Maybe Juliette turning into hexenbiest is related to Adalind changing methods or temperament.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - brandon - 02-26-2017
She was angry and distressed. Had lost something very valuable: daughter. And it may be that have never experienced this pain before: "pain of mother". Nobody wanted to help everybody thought I'd be better with Kelly. Maybe it was when she was starting to trust Nick as "GRIMM". Remember what Elizabeth felt to enter the warehouse:"sad".
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Robyn - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 07:00 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: IMO after the hexenbiest fight, Adalind started to try to change her methods but not her goals. Maybe Juliette turning into hexenbiest is related to Adalind changing methods or temperament.Yea, we’re discussing two different events/reactions.
Adalind’s ‘epiphany’ occurred after Diana’s birth. But once she realized how Juliette being a Hexenbiest changed her circumstances, Adalind felt defeated and even more desperate with her chances of getting Diana back and keeping her unborn child safe. Although, I don’t think Adalind went to Nick because she realized he would help her be a ‘good girl’ and good mother, but rather, was compelled by her desperation and lack of options.
So agree, Adalind’s method/temperament changed at that point but not her objective. But I only see Adalind shifting gears because Juliette became a Hexenbiest as a response to how it affected her situation. I don’t see it as a magical connection, except that in S6 a preordained destiny is retroactively implied.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Kwu9888 - 02-26-2017
The one constant here is that Syscrash and a few others will never admit that Juliette helped kill Nicks mother no matter what is said so that's OK it's obvious she doesn't like Adalind and Nick together and again that's her prerogative but I'm still at a loss to see how Adalind's "crimes" can be compared to Juliette's. I have always felt that Adalind is not the most competent villain she never actually seems to get it right, of course some will say she raped Nick not my opinion but not going there. If you look at that objectively she didn't even do that right she got pregnant I mean who does that
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - irukandji - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 10:22 AM)Kwu9888 Wrote: The one constant here is that Syscrash and a few others will never admit that Juliette helped kill Nicks mother no matter what is said so that's OK it's obvious she doesn't like Adalind and Nick together and again that's her prerogative but I'm still at a loss to see how Adalind's "crimes" can be compared to Juliette's. I have always felt that Adalind is not the most competent villain she never actually seems to get it right, of course some will say she raped Nick not my opinion but not going there. If you look at that objectively she didn't even do that right she got pregnant I mean who does that
I'll admit she betrayed Kelly. But stating Juliette helped kill Kelly is mere speculation unless someone who insists Juliette did it has definitive proof. Juliette said she didn't know Kelly was going to be killed. I believe her.
Also, I do not consider this a constant, but a one time thing.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - brandon - 02-26-2017
I not.Its same.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - FaceInTheCrowd - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 07:21 AM)Robyn Wrote: Adalind’s ‘epiphany’ occurred after Diana’s birth. But once she realized how Juliette being a Hexenbiest changed her circumstances, Adalind felt defeated and even more desperate with her chances of getting Diana back and keeping her unborn child safe. Although, I don’t think Adalind went to Nick because she realized he would help her be a ‘good girl’ and good mother, but rather, was compelled by her desperation and lack of options.
So agree, Adalind’s method/temperament changed at that point but not her objective. But I only see Adalind shifting gears because Juliette became a Hexenbiest as a response to how it affected her situation. I don’t see it as a magical connection, except that in S6 a preordained destiny is retroactively implied.
I don't think Adalind had a sudden, all-changing epiphany, but Diana's birth started her down a long road to change. Initially, it was only her objective that changed - instead of self-interest and an attraction to power her goal became getting her daughter back - but her willingness to use trickery and manipulation and use or abuse others to achieve her ends did not.
The next step in Adalind's change came when she gave birth to Kelly in circumstances that were at least as dangerous and uncertain as when she had Diana, and she realized that continuing to do things the same way was just asking for misfortune to befall her second child.
I think the thing that finally put Adalind solidly in the changed woman category was Nick giving her the choice to bring Kelly and come with him when he sold the house, and then not expecting her to do anything except parent Kelly with him. Probably the first time in her life that anyone had ever offered her anything with no strings attached.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - MarylikesGrimm - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 12:01 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The next step in Adalind's change came when she gave birth to Kelly in circumstances that were at least as dangerous and uncertain as when she had Diana, and she realized that continuing to do things the same way was just asking for misfortune to befall her second child.
I think the thing that finally put Adalind solidly in the changed woman category was Nick giving her the choice to bring Kelly and come with him when he sold the house, and then not expecting her to do anything except parent Kelly with him. Probably the first time in her life that anyone had ever offered her anything with no strings attached.
Adalind change in methods started in Bad Luck where she decided to try work with Sean by meeting in the car even though the royals could have punished her. Sean did not believe her because he believe her to be a bad mother and from the past behavior. When Sean saw her in Irons Hans this time he believed her which IMO would not have happened if he had not meet her in the car before. Sean told Nick he believe Adalind which helped Nick decide to work with her.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - irukandji - 02-26-2017
(02-26-2017, 10:45 AM)brandon Wrote: I not.Its same.
Explain how betraying someone equates to participating in their death.