+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Spoilers (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Spoilers)
+---- Forum: Season 6 Spoilers (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Season-6-Spoilers)
+---- Thread: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals (/Thread-Meisner-resistance-or-HW-spy-on-the-resistance-and-royals)
Pages:
1
2
Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - jsgrimm45 - 02-05-2017
Meisner has came back a s glost for some reason with regards to Renard. We know Renard knew Meiner as being with the resistance as a freelance agent. So was Meisner just a mercenary or was that his cover to get into the working of the resistance and keep tabs on the royals?
They never gave us a timeline on HW, but because he showed up in HW and Diaan as far as we know never made it to the resistance but to HW, was he alway HW spy?
Do we have proof either way? IMO yes because of Diana being with HW.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - Robyn - 02-05-2017
Irukandji and I had a fairly detailed discussion about Meisner and his possible background/connections, but don’t have a clue which thread it was in.
Meisner as an HW agent who infiltrated the Resistance would go back to at least S3. That Kelly, hired by Tavitian / the Resistance, was able to thwart their mission to get Diana brings that scenario into question. There would have been an HW agent at the air strip to ‘take the package’ from Meisner. But if HW was covertly working with the Resistance things might have played out as they did.
Viktor may have made a deal with the Resistance, just as Meisner told Renard, but a mole in the Resistance causing HW to lose Diana in S3 could be why HW took total control of the mission in S4 and left the Resistance out of the loop. It could also suggest HW purposely allowed Kelly to die or they considered her collateral damage.
As a fellow Resistance member and Renard’s agent for hire, I can see Meisner compelled to let him know the Royals didn’t have Diana and the King was dead. But as a double agent playing theses roles, I can’t see Meisner providing Renard any information.
An HW agent who was playing the role of Renard’s agent for hire/friend being interested in redeeming/converting Renard to the good fight doesn’t make sense either. Other than, as a spirit, Meisner now knows that Renard is destined to play a specific role in the coming big bad throw-down.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - Kathryn Wooten - 02-05-2017
[/quote], as a spirit, Meisner now knows that Renard is destined to play a specific role in the coming big bad throw-down.
[/quote]
I believe Renard has to be redeem to be part of the Scoobie world...reading about the departures. EVE, Hank and Wu left an entire week, before Nick and Renard, Adalind and so forth..I take it that both men will be still standing at the END...in the END, however either Renard or Nick is left standing and I care to guess it will Be Renard, not because he killed Nick..but what ever happens to Nick saves a lot of lives..I also think Renard and Adalind at the end will be together as a family. This only happens if Renard redeem himself as G&K says he will got through some sort of redemption
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - Robyn - 02-05-2017
(02-05-2017, 07:57 AM)Kathryn Wooten Wrote: I believe Renard has to be redeem to be part of the Scoobie world...reading about the departures. EVE, Hank and Wu left an entire week, before Nick and Renard, Adalind and so forth..I take it that both men will be still standing at the END...in the END, however either Renard or Nick is left standing and I care to guess it will Be Renard, not because he killed Nick..but what ever happens to Nick saves a lot of lives..I also think Renard and Adalind at the end will be together as a family. This only happens if Renard redeem himself as G&K says he will got through some sort of redemptionI’m going to post my response in the ‘What is the reason behind Meisner haunting Sean’ thread, since this one is about Meisner's role and objectives as an HW operative.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - jsgrimm45 - 02-05-2017
(02-05-2017, 07:42 AM)Robyn Wrote: Irukandji and I had a fairly detailed discussion about Meisner and his possible background/connections, but don’t have a clue which thread it was in.In season 3 HW had no interest in Diana, why would they she is only a baby. Meisner would have just told HW that he got a mother and child out of the royals hands.
Meisner as an HW agent who infiltrated the Resistance would go back to at least S3. That Kelly, hired by Tavitian / the Resistance, was able to thwart their mission to get Diana brings that scenario into question. There would have been an HW agent at the air strip to ‘take the package’ from Meisner. But if HW was covertly working with the Resistance things might have played out as they did.
Viktor may have made a deal with the Resistance, just as Meisner told Renard, but a mole in the Resistance causing HW to lose Diana in S3 could be why HW took total control of the mission in S4 and left the Resistance out of the loop. It could also suggest HW purposely allowed Kelly to die or they considered her collateral damage.
As a fellow Resistance member and Renard’s agent for hire, I can see Meisner compelled to let him know the Royals didn’t have Diana and the King was dead. But as a double agent playing theses roles, I can’t see Meisner providing Renard any information.
An HW agent who was playing the role of Renard’s agent for hire/friend being interested in redeeming/converting Renard to the good fight doesn’t make sense either. Other than, as a spirit, Meisner now knows that Renard is destined to play a specific role in the coming big bad throw-down.
You kind of lost me on Kelly death. At the time BC operation wasn't in Portland and HW wasn't in Portland or if either one was they hadn't made any moves as yet. Even if they were what make you think they had any interest in Diana even then?
Diana may have pop up on HW radar when Meisner tells them the royals want her and the resistance wanted her, also we have no way of knowing if Kelly had any contact with HW. Not to say Kelly was working with HW not likely but she could have been contacted by HW like Trubel was, ask to come on board.
HW may not have known that Meisner contacted Renard about the King or Diana, he could have done this himself, he knows Sean could HW have been trying to get a feel on what Sean might do? Meisner may have told him to gage his reaction to the news, and we know at the time BC nor HW was operating in the open. We know in fact HW never operated in the open on BC did.
Just my 2 cents but I can see Meisner as a double agent inside the resistance, to gage if the royals or the resistance will be an enemy or ally in their conflict with BC.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - Robyn - 02-05-2017
(02-05-2017, 12:27 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: In season 3 HW had no interest in Diana, why would they she is only a baby. Meisner would have just told HW that he got a mother and child out of the royals hands.Your speculation was that Meisner had always been an HW spy in the Resistance. If the Resistance considered the powerful child important, then HW would know because Meisner would tell them.
You kind of lost me on Kelly death. At the time BC operation wasn't in Portland and HW wasn't in Portland or if either one was they hadn't made any moves as yet. Even if they were what make you think they had any interest in Diana even then?
Diana may have pop up on HW radar when Meisner tells them the royals want her and the resistance wanted her, also we have no way of knowing if Kelly had any contact with HW. Not to say Kelly was working with HW not likely but she could have been contacted by HW like Trubel was, ask to come on board.
HW may not have known that Meisner contacted Renard about the King or Diana, he could have done this himself, he knows Sean could HW have been trying to get a feel on what Sean might do? Meisner may have told him to gage his reaction to the news, and we know at the time BC nor HW was operating in the open. We know in fact HW never operated in the open on BC did.
Just my 2 cents but I can see Meisner as a double agent inside the resistance, to gage if the royals or the resistance will be an enemy or ally in their conflict with BC.
Kelly's death was speculation based on HW being involved from the beginning. If Kelly thwarted their plans to get Diana in S3, they may have allowed her to walk into a trap in S4, because Meisner was already in place to take Diana from the Royals before they left Portland. If HW existed before S4, they knew about the powerful baby. Everybody and his brother knew about the powerful baby and were willing to kill to get her.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - jsgrimm45 - 02-05-2017
(02-05-2017, 12:39 PM)Robyn Wrote:This speculation would only work if and this is a big if HW knew Kelly would bring Diana with her or would fall into the royals trap. Viktor sold out the royals using Diana as chip.(02-05-2017, 12:27 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: In season 3 HW had no interest in Diana, why would they she is only a baby. Meisner would have just told HW that he got a mother and child out of the royals hands.Your speculation was that Meisner had always been an HW spy in the Resistance. If the Resistance considered the powerful child important, then HW would know because Meisner would tell them.
You kind of lost me on Kelly death. At the time BC operation wasn't in Portland and HW wasn't in Portland or if either one was they hadn't made any moves as yet. Even if they were what make you think they had any interest in Diana even then?
Diana may have pop up on HW radar when Meisner tells them the royals want her and the resistance wanted her, also we have no way of knowing if Kelly had any contact with HW. Not to say Kelly was working with HW not likely but she could have been contacted by HW like Trubel was, ask to come on board.
HW may not have known that Meisner contacted Renard about the King or Diana, he could have done this himself, he knows Sean could HW have been trying to get a feel on what Sean might do? Meisner may have told him to gage his reaction to the news, and we know at the time BC nor HW was operating in the open. We know in fact HW never operated in the open on BC did.
Just my 2 cents but I can see Meisner as a double agent inside the resistance, to gage if the royals or the resistance will be an enemy or ally in their conflict with BC.
Kelly's death was speculation based on HW being involved from the beginning. If Kelly thwarted their plans to get Diana in S3, they may have allowed her to walk into a trap in S4, because Meisner was already in place to take Diana from the Royals before they left Portland. If HW existed before S4, they knew about the powerful baby. Everybody and his brother knew about the powerful baby and were willing to kill to get her.
Now if HW was now aware that Diana would be taken by Kenneth (he was known for getting things done) wouldn't HW want Meisner on site to take the child, answer likely. Now with this speculation would you say this is went HW recruits Meisner and takes Diana or was HW already in the loop? We know Meisner doublecrossed the resistance and HW had Diana. So this one act shows HW and Meisner had contact before this point in time or the resistance is a front of HW.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - FaceInTheCrowd - 02-05-2017
HW has probably existed for about the same time as BC, about 10 years. But they had no idea that Nick might be a Grimm until Chavez found a book in his house, and when Nick failed Chavez' woge test, they discounted him and moved on to Trubel.
The only way HW could have known about Diana as a powerful hexenbaby would be if Meisner told them. Or possibly Trubel, but I don't recall offhand if anyone ever told Trubel that about Diana. And if Meisner was already in HW in S03, why wouldn't he have just taken Adalind and Diana to them then?
So we can surmise that HW was around prior to S04, but they weren't involved in what was happening in the series' corner of the world.
The fact that the royals and the resistance abruptly ceased to be a presence after S04 makes it likely that they formed an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" alliance with HW against BC, "for now," as Meisner told Sean. The resistance killed King Freddie for Viktor, Viktor gave up the hexenbaby for the throne and resistance personnel and "assets" like Meisner and Diana went to HW.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - jsgrimm45 - 02-05-2017
(02-05-2017, 01:02 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: HW has probably existed for about the same time as BC, about 10 years. But they had no idea that Nick might be a Grimm until Chavez found a book in his house, and when Nick failed Chavez' woge test, they discounted him and moved on to Trubel.All good points. Would disagree some on Adalind and Diana in season 3 Meisner seen some of the power of Diana yes but did he have time to report it and change plans? After he dropped them off yes but HW may have planned to take Adalind and Diana in Brazil, but Kelly changing the plan may have put both HW and the resistance off the trail.
The only way HW could have known about Diana as a powerful hexenbaby would be if Meisner told them. Or possibly Trubel, but I don't recall offhand if anyone ever told Trubel that about Diana. And if Meisner was already in HW in S03, why wouldn't he have just taken Adalind and Diana to them then?
So we can surmise that HW was around prior to S04, but they weren't involved in what was happening in the series' corner of the world.
The fact that the royals and the resistance abruptly ceased to be a presence after S04 makes it likely that they formed an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" alliance with HW against BC, "for now," as Meisner told Sean. The resistance killed King Freddie for Viktor, Viktor gave up the hexenbaby for the throne and resistance personnel and "assets" like Meisner and Diana went to HW.
RE: Meisner resistance or HW spy on the resistance and royals - Robyn - 02-05-2017
Js, I’m confused. You started this discussion speculating that Meisner might have been an HW agent working inside the Resistance and spying on the Royals:
Quote:They never gave us a timeline on HW, but because he showed up in HW and Diaan as far as we know never made it to the resistance but to HW, was he alway HW spy?
Now you seem to be debating whether it’s a viable possibility. If speculating Meisner was an undisclosed double agent, we have to assume that events from S3 were not as exactly seen/interpreted. Meisner told Adalind in the car that she and her baby were very important to the Resistance. As a spy, he wouldn’t mention HW’s interest. If the Resistance knew Diana was valuable, then Meisner knew, which means HW knew. Everyone knew, or at least believed in S3 that Diana was a valuable asset.
Viktor told the Resistance the Royals’ plans to come to Portland and take Diana. Which means Meisner knew, which means HW knew. HW knew whatever the Resistance knew, because Meisner, the spy, was feeding them information. If the Royals assumed Kelly would respond to Nick being in danger and bring Diana with her, then HW made the same assumption and planned accordingly.
If Meisner was an HW spy working a covert operation, the Royals, the Resistance, and viewers would not be aware of them until HW disclosed it’s existence in S5. And then they would only disclose information on a need to know basis.
(02-05-2017, 01:02 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: And if Meisner was already in HW in S03, why wouldn't he have just taken Adalind and Diana to them then?If speculating HW’s involvement in S3, the plan could have been to take them once landing in Brazil. But Kelly rerouting the plane to Portland derailed those plans.
On the flipside, if HW was actively involved in S3, they could have intervened in Portland and taken Diana. And hopefully Adalind too.
I wasn’t impressed with Meisner’s operation, but Chavez’ was impressive. Maybe because it was for such a brief time. But her team made quick work of neutralizing a Grimm and taking a Hexenbiest.