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+--- Thread: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... (/Thread-one-of-those-things-that-just-frosts-my-flakes)
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - MarylikesGrimm - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 08:26 AM)irukandji Wrote:(12-23-2016, 07:21 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This has been one of the main debates on the forum those who think at least she should have known and those who think she couldn't have known. As with most thing in life there is no black and white it is almost all gray. So we have a good debate point that keeps coming around.
Facts as I see them are she was there on the planning and even told Kenneth who lived in the home around Nick's house. So if she didn't know she must have thought that the easy going verrat were just going to tie them up? She sent the email to Kelly one of the few people Kelly would trust.
So this brings Kelly back to Portland.
@izzy says correctly Juliette was educated, that in itself would make one think she may not have wanted to know what was going to happen, but 2 and 2 still make 4 at this point she only wants Nick to suffer. So if Kelly was killed no problem as long as she could tell herself I didn't know. Now later we have a different question did she go back to kill Nick on the King's order, or did her role in what happen finally become clear to her and did she really want Nick to kill her?
Now we get to that point Juliette knew Nick likely wouldn't kill her but she had no problem trying to kill him did she. So using that point IMO says she knew what would happen to Kelly. If she could kill Nick who she knew so well shouldn't be a problem killing Kelly who she little.
Kenneth did a good job of pointing her in a direction and her taking her own lead. We have to give Kenneth credit he knew what buttons to push. He didn't push the Juliette button only the revenge button of the hexenbiest.
I was reading the posts in this thread again and this one caught my eye, especially the bolded part.
Why exactly would Kelly trust Juliette? If I remember correctly the two women didn't become special friends. They didn't share a personal life changing moment that would make them recognize a kindred spirit within one another. Certainly Kelly wouldn't be dumb enough to think that just because Juliette is with Nick, it'd be all right for her to trust Juliette.
There was nothing between them that would point toward Kelly placing her life and Diana's life on the line for Juliette. So why did Kelly trust Juliette?
Nick put Juliette in charge of reading and sending emails to mama Kelly. Juliette had emailed Kelly at least once before and was tracking were all the different email from Mama Kelly was coming from.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - irukandji - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 08:43 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(01-16-2017, 08:26 AM)irukandji Wrote:(12-23-2016, 07:21 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This has been one of the main debates on the forum those who think at least she should have known and those who think she couldn't have known. As with most thing in life there is no black and white it is almost all gray. So we have a good debate point that keeps coming around.
Facts as I see them are she was there on the planning and even told Kenneth who lived in the home around Nick's house. So if she didn't know she must have thought that the easy going verrat were just going to tie them up? She sent the email to Kelly one of the few people Kelly would trust.
So this brings Kelly back to Portland.
@izzy says correctly Juliette was educated, that in itself would make one think she may not have wanted to know what was going to happen, but 2 and 2 still make 4 at this point she only wants Nick to suffer. So if Kelly was killed no problem as long as she could tell herself I didn't know. Now later we have a different question did she go back to kill Nick on the King's order, or did her role in what happen finally become clear to her and did she really want Nick to kill her?
Now we get to that point Juliette knew Nick likely wouldn't kill her but she had no problem trying to kill him did she. So using that point IMO says she knew what would happen to Kelly. If she could kill Nick who she knew so well shouldn't be a problem killing Kelly who she little.
Kenneth did a good job of pointing her in a direction and her taking her own lead. We have to give Kenneth credit he knew what buttons to push. He didn't push the Juliette button only the revenge button of the hexenbiest.
I was reading the posts in this thread again and this one caught my eye, especially the bolded part.
Why exactly would Kelly trust Juliette? If I remember correctly the two women didn't become special friends. They didn't share a personal life changing moment that would make them recognize a kindred spirit within one another. Certainly Kelly wouldn't be dumb enough to think that just because Juliette is with Nick, it'd be all right for her to trust Juliette.
There was nothing between them that would point toward Kelly placing her life and Diana's life on the line for Juliette. So why did Kelly trust Juliette?
Nick put Juliette in charge of reading and sending emails to mama Kelly. Juliette had emailed Kelly at least once before and was tracking were all the different email from Mama Kelly was coming from.
Was Kelly was present when he did that? Did she agree to that?
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - Hell Rell - 01-16-2017
It's been a while since I've seen it so correct me if I'm wrong. I think Juliette contacted Kelly and Kelly told her she was happy that she was healthy again and said it would be better for her to make contact with Juliette instead of Nick. I don't know why but that's the way I remember it.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - irukandji - 01-16-2017
I couldn't find much either way. I found where Juliette questioned the emails from "M", and frantically searched for who "M" was. When she found out it was Nick's mother, she was shocked that Kelly was still alive but relieved because at least she could trust Nick. How dumb.
This is yet another thing about the character of Juliette that annoys the heck out of me. She's portrayed as the untrusting harpy, frantic with jealousy.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-16-2017
"The Wild Hunt." Juliette asks Nick if maybe she should try sending Kelly email. Nick tells her to go ahead but not to be surprised if she doesn't reply. Kelly does reply, says she is heading north to find "L," which Nick presumes means the Lauffer, and tells Juliette that it will be safer for "N" to communicate through her.
It was Kelly's idea to funnel communications between her and Nick through Juliette. Not one of her best.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - irukandji - 01-16-2017
Thanks. I found where Nick emailed his mom in season four to warn her but couldn't find this one.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - syscrash - 01-17-2017
The Trubel time line as shown in the show. Trubel shoots Juliette then goes on mission. The Juliette and Meisner flash back is while Trubel is on mission. The scenes with Chavez also occur during that time. This is when Trubel hears abut them training a hexenbiest.
Nick and Adalind move. Trubel returns. Chavez is dead. We see Trubel is injured which looks like she is recovering. So she would have no reason to go to the operation room. When Nick went to the compound we saw Eve was at one end and Trubel was it another. There is a gate with a gaurd between the two rooms. We then see Meisner asking Trubel if she is ready. After she crashes her bike at Nicks. He takes her to the hospital where they drug her. This causes her to not be able to leave and go back to Nicks.
Trubel is at Nick's because unlike the house. Without same one at the fome they can not spy on him. Trubel told Nick and Adalind HW knew all about them. Meisner then tells Eve it is time she goes outside the wall. That means she is now active an no longer a secret. After the warehouse and Trubel hears about Eve. She tells Nick about the hexenbiest project. The project being top secret she does not have the details.
Trubel goes to Meisner and is mad. Trubel was at the compound and Meisner did not read her in. When was talking to Nick about creating a hexenbiest weapon she knew it was about Juliette. When Trubel said why didn't you tell me she was alive. It was like Meisner wall comment. Trubel was mad Meisner did not tell her the weapon was active. Remember HW is a military base. And actions are refered to in military terms. When and ordanice is live that means it is armed. When Meisner sent Eve out she was fully armed. To Hw she is a weapon.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-17-2017
Trubel doesn't seem to have ever learned military-speak. The way she talked in HW was the same way she had always talked before.
So my take on it is Trubel thought she killed Juliette, Chavez and her team grabbed her and shipped her off before she had a chance to find out otherwise, and when she heard HW was using a hexenbiest as a weapon, she never made the connection because she "knew" that she had killed Juliette. And she's really pissed at Meisner when she finds out otherwise because he didn't relieve her of all the guilt she'd been carrying around for having to kill her friend. I can only imagine what she would have wanted to do to Chavez if she'd still been alive to be the object of that anger.
What is uncertain to me is whether the injuries Trubel had when she arrived at Nick's were something Meisner did to "dress her up" for the role of an injured friend, or whether the ones she had before she left HW were from a previous mission and she was further injured by a BC ambush she ran into on her way to the fome to make contact with Nick.
BTW, I worked on DoD systems for some years. Systems go live. Not "alive."
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - syscrash - 01-17-2017
Looking at the injuries when a Trubel was in the room. Matched the ones when she showed up at Nicks. If Trubel had actually been injured I don't thank she would have been able to fight. Plus Meisner knew she was injured so she must have gone to HW before being sent to Nick's.
You are right the term when referring to something being activated is being live. Why I don't take Trubel's statements verbatim is she keeps retracting her statements. She started with Juliette is dead. Then it became she is not sure. Then she was alive when Chavez took her. This went to talking about a hexenbiest being turned into a weapin.
It did not seem like it was a thought process as much as her inability to concoct a cover story. Like when Nick got back from the restaurant and called Juliette Eve. Trubel acted like she did not know who he was talking about. Yet she had gone to Meisner and got read in on the project.Trubel acts like someone who is caught between keeping HW secrets and her loyalty to Nick.
RE: one of those things that just frosts my flakes... - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-17-2017
Well, that's possible. But taking Trubel's conversation with Meisner at face value, since she has no reason to be concocting stories with him, she had delivered a live Juliette to Chavez, then there was a point where she thought Juliette was either dead or likely dead and a point where she knew that she wasn't. And she's ticked off when she realizes that the period in between could have been a whole lot shorter if someone had kept her updated on what was going on.