+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world (/Thread-The-rules-of-the-Grimm-fantasy-world)
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - syscrash - 01-19-2017
What I find annoying is Eve is shown to have more trouble dealing with her change then Juliette had dealing with her memory loss. But like the memory lose they again have her wallowing in despair. Even the Juliette in season four started to show confidence as she started to accept being a hexenbiest. Season five Eve was fully confident in who she was. Season 6 she seems to show a lack of any confidence. Even Adalind is showing more confidence and arrogance then in season 5. From the previews it seems we will start to see more of the old Eve.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - FaceInTheCrowd - 01-19-2017
Right now Eve is feeling as if there are two of her in her head. Maybe she's concerned that the other one may be Juliette the hexenbiest, who turned on her friends and got Nick's mother and all her neighbors killed because she didn't like the way Nick looked at her woge.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - rpmaluki - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 01:12 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Right now Eve is feeling as if there are two of her in her head. Maybe she's concerned that the other one may be Juliette the hexenbiest, who turned on her friends and got Nick's mother and all her neighbors killed because she didn't like the way Nick looked at her woge.I think so. In the first episode, she said she didn't want to go back (to homicidal vengeful hexenbiest). It makes sense for Eve to try and be the dominant persona if she's afraid Juliette's feelings are anything like the time she turned of on her friends. Even Monroe and Rosalee gave each other these looks when she said that, like they hoped she wouldn't go back either. She don't/didn't trust that she could contain herself but I don't think that's the issue now since the stick has blocked a certain part of her hexenbiest, perhaps the part that is a homicidal vengeful hexenbiest. So she gets to feel again but none of the bad stuff that led her down the S4B path.
It has to be what was meant by the stick purifying her soul. It's the one thing I never considered, that Hexenette in her true form was beyond rehabilitation, maybe that is the consequence of being made instead of being born a hexenbiest. There's no moderation of the vile nature of the hexenbiest. Perhaps she cannot coexist with the scoobies unless she's 100% Eve (whatever HW did to her because it actually worked) but the stick has effectively and even permanently "suppressed" all the negative aspects of Hexenette while restoring Juliette and found a happy middle for her to function as herself as well as being a hexenbiest. So technically, she has nothing to worry about, she can let herself feel without fearing the worst and still be badass Eve when the occasion calls for it. I do like how she's not coddling Nick where the stick is concerned. It's probably the first time I've ever appreciated her character since she came back.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - syscrash - 01-19-2017
Quote:I think so. In the first episode, she said she didn't want to go back (to homicidal vengeful hexenbiest). It makes sense for Eve to try and be the dominant persona if she's afraid Juliette's feelings are anything like the time she turned of on her friends. Even Monroe and Rosalee gave each other these looks when she said that, like they hoped she wouldn't go back either. She don't/didn't trust that she could contain herself but I don't think that's the issue now since the stick has blocked a certain part of her hexenbiest, perhaps the part that is a homicidal vengeful hexenbiest. So she gets to feel again but none of the bad stuff that led her down the S4B path.
They idea that Juliette was out of control only exist in the minds of some of the people that post comments. The show created multiple reason to justify Juliette's actions. The show went to extremes to explain why Juliette was upset with Nick and Adalind. From the way Adalind got pregnant to the way Nick handled the situation. They then had Nick completely put off by Juliette being a hexnebiest. Only to have Nick total accept Adalind who is a hexenbiest. Looking at it from Juliette's point of view she showed a lot of restraint. Adalind having had a lot less done to her retaliated in far worse ways.
Example is rpmaluki who refers to Juliette as a "homicidal vengeful hexenbiest" yet Juliette never killed anybody. The one death she was involved with the show gave her plausible denial. With Adalind she actually tried to kill Nick's aunt, poisoned Juliette, poisoned Hank. That is the definition of homicidal vengeful.
With the trailer Eve was concerned about the loss of the books. But she shows little concern about how Nick felt about it. With siding with the Royals Juliette regretted what happened to his mother but has never regretted working with the Royals. She was doing what she thought was best for her future since none of her friends where supporting her.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - rpmaluki - 01-19-2017
She tried to kill Monroe by using Nick as proxy. It's not about what she didn't do, her intentions were certainly murderous, several of her neighbors can attest to that. Murder or an attempt of it can't ever be justified, understandable sure but never justified. Both women would find themselves serving some serious jail time over their actions. Her actions maybe explained but they are never to be excused just as Adalind's own actions aren't excusable. People have reasons behind every actions, nothing happens in a vacuum where there aren't any consequences, Juliette is no different.
Adalind hasn't killed anybody either.
Juliette certain didn't care about the books when she set the trailer on fire.
Having read every argument you have made for Juliette, I realise your version of Juliette at the end of S4 is certainly a horrible person to be around and for Nick and the scoobies' sake I hope they stay away from her. She responds to them trying to cure her hexenbiest with extreme and lethal force because it's "what's best for her". I'd empathize if it weren't for the dead, regardless of her not doing the killing herself, she still played a significant part. I can see why Eve is wary of that Juliette coming back, I'd be worried too if your Juliette was the one we are seeing on screen right now.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - MarylikesGrimm - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 02:54 AM)syscrash Wrote: Example is rpmaluki who refers to Juliette as a "homicidal vengeful hexenbiest" yet Juliette never killed anybody. The one death she was involved with the show gave her plausible denial. With Adalind she actually tried to kill Nick's aunt, poisoned Juliette, poisoned Hank. That is the definition of homicidal vengeful.
Both Juliette in season 4 in "Tribunal" and Adalind in Season 3 in Europe killed once in self defense.
Adalind was taking orders from Sean Renard as a favor for her mother who was in debt to Sean. She was not being paid to arrange for Nick's aunt murder and to poison Hank. Adalind revenge against Sean, Nick and her mother was poisoning Juliette and making her attracted to Sean while Juliette's revenge was burning the trailer, giving support to the Royals, who were paying her, kidnapping Diana again, Kelly's murder and death of the neighbors. In my opinion, the show made two hexenbiests to be similar amount bad/good for season 1/2 Adalind compared to season 4 Juliette.
I do not want a rehash either let us agree to disagree.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - syscrash - 01-19-2017
Quote:She tried to kill Monroe by using Nick as proxy. It's not about what she didn't do, her intentions were certainly murderous,She no more tried to kill monroe then she tried to kill Sean. They showed Juliette is a expert shot. Remember at the range every shot hit the center.
Quote:her intentions were certainly murderous, several of her neighbors can attest to thatThe show had Chavez prove that killing the neighbors and Kelly was not an expected conclusion. Chavez did the exact same thing as Kenneth and no one got hurt. That was the purpose of the show repeating the exact same scene as Kenneth using Chavez. Remember this show is scripted which means by definition coincidences do not exist. They wanted to add to the concept of Juliette not being the villain by giving her plausible denial.
Quote:Both women would find themselves serving some serious jail time over their actions.The difference Juliette's where a crime of passion. Something that could result in classified as temporary insanity. Adalind's where for personal gain.
Quote:Adalind hasn't killed anybody either.Actually Hank and Juliette would have die had Nick and the gang not intervened. That is attempted murder in all fifty states. The most Juliette is guilty of is aiding and abetting. She could not even be charged a an accomplice. To be an accomplice she would have had to take an active part. She was and accomplice in the kidnapping. Because the kidnapping resulted in a death she could be charged as an assessor after the fact. Adalind could be charged premeditated attempted murder. As because it was for hire it would have an enhancement.
Quote:Both women would find themselves serving some serious jail time over their actions.Juliette would not be eligible for the death penalty. Had Hank or Juliette died Adalind would have most defiantly gotten the death penalty. The attempt would have gotten with the for hire enhancement would have gotten her 20 to life. Juliette may have gotten maybe five years if that. The reason, because she did not take an active part in the murders or even directly know about the murders. You can not be convicted on what someone thinks you should have known.
From a legal stand point what Nick did to Kenneth was premeditated murder and abuse of authority. It would get him much more time then Juliette would have gotten for the trailer and her part with Kenneth.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - rpmaluki - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 04:37 AM)syscrash Wrote:As always, we see things differently and having gone through this argument several times before in the past, I'm in no mood to rehash old beaten and well trodden ground. We can agree to disagree.Quote:She tried to kill Monroe by using Nick as proxy. It's not about what she didn't do, her intentions were certainly murderous,She no more tried to kill monroe then she tried to kill Sean. They showed Juliette is a expert shot. Remember at the range every shot hit the center.
Quote:her intentions were certainly murderous, several of her neighbors can attest to thatThe show had Chavez prove that killing the neighbors and Kelly was not an expected conclusion. Chavez did the exact same thing as Kenneth and no one got hurt. That was the purpose of the show repeating the exact same scene as Kenneth using Chavez. Remember this show is scripted which means by definition coincidences do not exist. They wanted to add to the concept of Juliette not being the villain by giving her plausible denial.
Quote:Both women would find themselves serving some serious jail time over their actions.The difference Juliette's where a crime of passion. Something that could result in classified as temporary insanity. Adalind's where for personal gain.
Quote:Adalind hasn't killed anybody either.Actually Hank and Juliette would have die had Nick and the gang not intervened. That is attempted murder in all fifty states. The most Juliette is guilty of is aiding and abetting. She could not even be charged a an accomplice. To be an accomplice she would have had to take an active part. She was and accomplice in the kidnapping. Because the kidnapping resulted in a death she could be charged as an assessor after the fact. Adalind could be charged premeditated attempted murder. As because it was for hire it would have an enhancement.
Quote:Both women would find themselves serving some serious jail time over their actions.Juliette would not be eligible for the death penalty. Had Hank or Juliette died Adalind would have most defiantly gotten the death penalty. The attempt would have gotten with the for hire enhancement would have gotten her 20 to life. Juliette may have gotten maybe five years if that. The reason, because she did not take an active part in the murders or even directly know about the murders. You can not be convicted on what someone thinks you should have known.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - irukandji - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 03:53 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Having read every argument you have made for Juliette, I realise your version of Juliette at the end of S4 is certainly a horrible person to be around and for Nick and the scoobies' sake I hope they stay away from her. She responds to them trying to cure her hexenbiest with extreme and lethal force because it's "what's best for her". I'd empathize if it weren't for the dead, regardless of her not doing the killing herself, she still played a significant part. I can see why Eve is wary of that Juliette coming back, I'd be worried too if your Juliette was the one we are seeing on screen right now.
Oddly enough, the two people who seemed to believe Juliette didn't have a problem as a hexenbiest were Henrietta and Adalind. Henrietta told Nick to leave Juliette alone, I'm guessing so she had time to adjust. Of course he wouldn't and his blundering made things worse.
Adalind herself showed even more understanding when she made the comment along the line of, "what hexenbiest hasn't torn up a bar?" Adalind was frightened of Juliette and rightfully so. But I never saw a reaction in Adalind that Juliette was so far off the grid for violent acts that she was one of a kind as hexenbiests go.
That said, I don't like the despairing Eve either. She's weak and made to appear worthless, which is really dumb in view of the danger to all of the scoobies.
RE: The rules of the Grimm fantasy world - rpmaluki - 01-19-2017
(01-19-2017, 06:15 AM)irukandji Wrote:At the time, I do truly believe Juliette would have calmed down, given time. What I'm getting now is a sense that maybe that was probably never going to happen. It's not conclusive obviously, I'm just going by Eve's own reaction about "going back" and that of Monroe and Rosalee. It could mean nothing other than three people's over active imagination about Hexenette, we'll probably never know for sure since the stick has altered Eve/Juliette once more.(01-19-2017, 03:53 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Having read every argument you have made for Juliette, I realise your version of Juliette at the end of S4 is certainly a horrible person to be around and for Nick and the scoobies' sake I hope they stay away from her. She responds to them trying to cure her hexenbiest with extreme and lethal force because it's "what's best for her". I'd empathize if it weren't for the dead, regardless of her not doing the killing herself, she still played a significant part. I can see why Eve is wary of that Juliette coming back, I'd be worried too if your Juliette was the one we are seeing on screen right now.
Oddly enough, the two people who seemed to believe Juliette didn't have a problem as a hexenbiest were Henrietta and Adalind. Henrietta told Nick to leave Juliette alone, I'm guessing so she had time to adjust. Of course he wouldn't and his blundering made things worse.
Adalind herself showed even more understanding when she made the comment along the line of, "what hexenbiest hasn't torn up a bar?" Adalind was frightened of Juliette and rightfully so. But I never saw a reaction in Adalind that Juliette was so far off the grid for violent acts that she was one of a kind as hexenbiests go.
That said, I don't like the despairing Eve either. She's weak and made to appear worthless, which is really dumb in view of the danger to all of the scoobies.
I agree she is a lot better when she's more assertive and self assured and not hanging by the proverbial thread due to an identity crisis and the uncertainty of her place in Nick's life. I definitely enjoyed her 1000x more in the second episode than I did in 6x01. I prefer she remain this way right through the rest of the season.