Quote:I'm sure they used some training, but I highly doubt the end result was that eventually Trubel would be able to beat her trainer or trainers at HW.

Such training certainly would definitely not have been used on Eve, in my opinion. She was trained to be a weapon and had to be broken down in order to be a weapon. In my opinion, the point of Eve was to be used, and thus controlled. The training you suggest would eventually put her in control, which would have been counterproductive to Chavez and Meisner's plans.

(12-03-2016, 10:36 PM)syscrash Wrote: I never said kill your trainer, just like the trainer would not kill the recruit.

Quote:that is the way training works. You keep getting bet up till you can win.

(12-03-2016, 10:36 PM)syscrash Wrote: Why would you think special forces training would not apply to Eve and Trubal.

(12-03-2016, 06:20 PM)syscrash Wrote: There was nothing docile about Eve. You can beat the fight out of someone. Basically domesticate them. But that does not make a good solider. Unless they still have a sense of aggression how would they ever win a fight. That is what domestication is. Removing the aggression which cause the will to fight. Don't confuse aggression with rage or anger. Eve showed neither anger or rage. But she was extremely aggressive in every confrontation. Not once did we see her hold back or hesitate.

(12-02-2016, 05:29 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:

(12-01-2016, 09:01 PM)irukandji Wrote: Of all people, I was reminded of Eve when I was thinking about this because she did give up her good name. I continue to wonder if she was forced to do so or if she did it willingly. I believe Nick probably forgave her back when he first saw her. Does she have the capacity to forgive herself?

About Eve, I believe (and I am talking about personal believing) that for redemption (and self-forgiveness) it is necessarily first to recognize that there is a mistake (or a sin) that need to be forgiven. I don’t think that is Eve’s case. She never accept she did anything wrong. When talking to nick she said “Juliette did”, not she (considering Nick’s mother death and all the events on season 4). I would say Eve is more in denial than in repentance.
NOTE: I am not judging Juliette’s action. I am just saying that for me if forgiveness is necessary, it is necessary first a repentance. If Juliette is not guilty of anything there is no need for forgiveness. If Eve doesn’t accept she did anything (she acts as Juliette is another person) then there is no way for forgiveness. Again, this is my way of view things; it is not a fundamental truth of the universe.

Now, you talked about Eve giving up her name. Correct me if I wrong, but are you talking about the fact she changed her name from Juliette to Eve? Do you think it can be a metaphor for something else that is not only She is a new person?

(12-02-2016, 07:45 AM)izzy Wrote: I was always hopeful that the name Eve was very deliberate and a biblical reference. given that, you could go down several scholarly tracks, but two that should apparent to all who grew up in Judeo-Christian circles

01) Eve, as in the woman who committed the original sin in the garden of eden
02) As part of the doctrine of original sin, is the idea that sins of the forefathers leading to punishment of their descendants

(12-03-2016, 12:51 AM)syscrash Wrote: Even in the show never has physical force been shown to make a difference. Let alone violence being a control method is not a valid concept. This whole idea of Meisner torturing Juliette because he hit her has no bases even in the shows reality. If torture was intended to be what changed her. You would see some evidence other then Meisner slapping her.

(12-01-2016, 07:20 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: This is an interesting theory, and it reminds me of an idea I cooked up a while ago about a possible major villain for the show's finale. It turns out Matthew Hopkins (the most infamous witch hunter of all time) was actually a Grimm. Although not immortal, his status as the most powerful Grimm in existence has given him unnatural longevity. He appears in Portland after the steadily rising reports of Hexenbiest activity reaches him, and manages to convince and/or brainwash Nick into believing that Hexenbiests are innately irredeemable. (Juliette's transformation and Adalind's behavior following her reversion only provide further "proof" for Hopkins's case.)

Nick finally snaps, his eyes turn completely black, and he starts to stalk all of the key Hexenbiest characters on the show - namely Juliette, Adalind, and Diana - determined to slay all of them. The only way to de-brainwash Nick is to somehow prove Hexenbiests aren't beyond any hope of salvation.

(12-04-2016, 12:18 PM)Robyn Wrote: I don’t think Juliette’s reinvention was about redemption, but rather, sidestepping immediate responsibility. The new Eve persona viewed Juliette as a separate individual who no longer existed, and Juliette’s bad acts weren’t Eve’s burden.

(12-04-2016, 01:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: I know a lot of people see the Eve character as a way of evading Juliette's responsibilities. I don't for one simple fact. Juliette never cared if Nick thought she was responsible for Kelly's death or not.

(12-04-2016, 03:53 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: If Juliette didn't care at all, she would have left Portland to live a life of amoral hedonism with a bunch of aristocratic scumbags.

(12-04-2016, 01:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: I know a lot of people see the Eve character as a way of evading Juliette's responsibilities. I don't. In my opinion, Juliette never cared if Nick thought she was responsible for Kelly's death or not.

(12-04-2016, 01:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Eve did refer to Juliette as if she were a separate entity. However in my opinion, that doesn't equate to Eve renigging responsibility for Juliette's actions. Eve, like Juliette, could care less what Nick thinks or feels about Kelly's death. If Eve were sidestepping responsibility for Kelly's death, there would have been a much different reaction instead of the one we see, which is complete indifference.