(12-10-2016, 11:44 AM)New Guy Wrote:

(12-10-2016, 11:20 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(12-09-2016, 04:54 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Iruk,
Your opinion does not offend me. However Juliette/Hexenette/FrankenEve's lies to Nick, the Scoobies and herself are offensive. As I stated, she is the only remining witness to her participation in planning the "mission." I'll not provide the transcript, but my recollection is that FrankenEve told Nick "I remember everything. I would have killed you." She also told Trubel she (meaning Hexenette, not her) would have "killed her too" as in also. So who is it that she did kill? Is she just trying to say she would have killed Nick and Trubel or also thinking about how Kelly died?

Hi New Guy-
You know, this is a very interesting point. First off, I interpreted Juliette's statement that she would have killed Nick and would have killed Trubel also. I don't see her correlating that in some way to, "I killed Kelly and I would have killed Nick and Trubel too". I think Grimm deliberately wants us to believe Juliette had nothing to do with Kelly's death. Even the betrayal of Kelly is rather weak in my opinion and that's not because I see Juliette as not doing it or being coerced into doing it. To me, it just doesn't make a lot of sense, even if Juliette was a roaring hexenbiest at that time.

However, you posed an intriguing thought, one which actually would have put the whole thing to rest. Suppose Kelly broke away from Kenneth and his thugs, somehow acquired Diana, and escaped? Would Juliette go after her and could she kill Kelly to get Diana back?

I'd say yes.

Hi Iruk,
Remember when Meisner, an HW agent, tossed Freddy out and told Diana "Down with the King?" So HW had Diana.
It was Rachel, a BC agent, who delivered Diana to Adalind and Renard.
How did BC get Diana from HW? Did I miss that scene?
So in season 6 we have BC vs HW. Meisner seems to be running the Portland HW after Chavez is killed. Why didn't Meisner send the Wooden Wonder Woman (WWW) to retrieve Diana? Did HW give Diana to Rachel and the BC?
By the way, Bitsie would not like you referring to her as "Juliette." She is Eve, or FrankenEve, aka WWW.
N G

(12-10-2016, 11:44 AM)New Guy Wrote: By the way, Bitsie would not like you referring to her as "Juliette." She is Eve, or FrankenEve, aka WWW.
N G

(12-10-2016, 12:18 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(12-10-2016, 11:44 AM)New Guy Wrote: By the way, Bitsie would not like you referring to her as "Juliette." She is Eve, or FrankenEve, aka WWW.
N G

LOL, I don't think she'd like you referring to her as FrankenEve either.

(12-10-2016, 11:50 AM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: They showed Meisner at Diana's former home with her dead foster parents in it. At first Meisner and Eve (she get a message from Diana) did not know where Diana was. Later when they knew where, Meisner/Trubel claimed that Diana and Kelly was too well guarded to get them back. Nick wanted to go after them since he wanted Kelly back.

(12-09-2016, 08:10 PM)izzy Wrote:

(12-09-2016, 04:54 PM)New Guy Wrote: However Juliette/Hexenette/FrankenEve's lies to Nick, the Scoobies and herself are offensive. As I stated, she is the only remining witness to her participation in planning the "mission." I'll not provide the transcript, but my recollection is that FrankenEve told Nick "I remember everything. I would have killed you." She also told Trubel she (meaning Hexenette, not her) would have "killed her too" as in also.

You know in reading this, I realize how utterly juvenile the writing of this season was. I always thought it was asinine, but I guess it never sunk in that Juliette-Eve-Skank-of-the-living-dead had really retained her memories (primarily because I tune out any scene this talentless hack is in). It make the entire plot even more asinine.

Quote:What you say is silly. Juliette knew there would beside effects.just because something did not go as expected you should blame someone else? No!

(12-11-2016, 07:40 AM)Robyn Wrote: Surely, you’re not just realizing this. There’s probably fanfic that delivered better material than the FUBAR that is S5.

(12-11-2016, 07:40 AM)Robyn Wrote: Then as soon as Eve started feeling the old Juliette she foolishly dove in head first with Nick. And again, Juliette, not Nick, suffered the consequences of blindly following this vain & ineffective leader.

Quote:Robyn Wrote:
Then as soon as Eve started feeling the old Juliette she foolishly dove in head first with Nick. And again, Juliette, not Nick, suffered the consequences of blindly following this vain & ineffective leader.

(12-11-2016, 11:31 PM)izzy Wrote:

(12-11-2016, 07:40 AM)Robyn Wrote: Surely, you’re not just realizing this. There’s probably fanfic that delivered better material than the FUBAR that is S5.

Yeah,often I am slow on the uptake. I think I was influenced by so many in this forum who saw far more in this show than I ever did. I kept looking for the genius in the show, the writing, the acting and in the end I concluded that those commentaries were as credible as bigfoot sightings.

(12-11-2016, 11:31 PM)izzy Wrote:

(12-11-2016, 07:40 AM)Robyn Wrote: Then as soon as Eve started feeling the old Juliette she foolishly dove in head first with Nick. And again, Juliette, not Nick, suffered the consequences of blindly following this vain & ineffective leader.

I love that description of Nick. : ) You are awesome as always Robyn

(12-12-2016, 02:55 AM)syscrash Wrote:

Quote:Robyn Wrote:
Then as soon as Eve started feeling the old Juliette she foolishly dove in head first with Nick. And again, Juliette, not Nick, suffered the consequences of blindly following this vain & ineffective leader.

At no point did she blindly follow Nick. The Hank rescue, HW had gathered info on the compound and planned the attack. The Nick rescue was the one attack not completely thought out. It was the one reactionary move Eve made. And yes she suffered the consequence. Even Eve admitted she had no idea Conrad was a Zauberbiest. Meisner would not have let her go without full knowledge of what she was up against. I am curious about the scene in the promo where Eve tells Nick she will go with him. Does this mean season 6 she will be a follower. In season 5 she always lead.

Quote:Yes, she did. Eve, the laser-focused soldier, detached from personal biases that would compromise her efficiency, would have told Nick, the ineffective, procrastinating Grimm/detective that he had been supplied more than sufficient intel to thwart Hank’s capture & his son being taken to the enemy camp and failed to act on it. But Eve, feeling the old Juliette’s allegiance to Nick, makes doing all she can to keep Nick and his son safe her priority, and as a result, dives head first, compromising herself and the HW mission.

I don’t know whether Eve should have been able to detect Bonaparte was a Zauberbiest. But Eve did acknowledge she should have known Hank’s kidnapping was a set up. Yes, she should have. And so should Meisner. But when the show takes a character introduced as a no nonsense, highly skilled & experienced mercenary and guts him to fit within the ‘everybody rallies around Nick’ camp, that’s what you get. The Meisner introduced in S2 would not have put up with Nick wobbling on the fence and only coming to HW when he needed help with a personal situation. But then, S5 wasn’t actually about a Wesen uprising, it was simply another season of Nick’s personal drama and all hands on deck to rally around the Grimm, an ineffective leader who five years in has not learned the necessity of being proactive.