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+--- Thread: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be (/Thread-7-VS-9-keys-how-could-this-be)
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7 VS 9 keys how could this be - jsgrimm45 - 08-13-2016
We were told early on that there were 7 keys and the royals had 4 by Renard. Than in season 5 Nick ends up with 5 keys and has enough to create a map for the correct area to find the relic. Now picking the lock for the two lacking keys wasn't a problem for me if you found it you could have picked the locks but without Grimm blood you would have to saw it open which also could be done.
The question than we know the box had 7 holes for key so we know that the 7 number is correct. So how did we get to 9?
One way the royals were lying only having 2 keys or maybe only one but saying they had 4 so if they found another key might be easier to talk the Grimm out of their key.
One way after the first Knight was taken the other Knights made fakes so maybe the only real key the royals had was the first key.
Why don't know (I could be wrong maybe they told us and I've forgotten) which Knighthood group were Grimms from. I go with the Templars they eat together and lived together so they were a tight group, harder to break a group like that. They also start small but become very powerful in wealth and power so much so the royals and the church had them killed.
Now for myself this isn't a very important question how Nick got the 5 keys but there is another side to this question we haven't asked. How did Mr. Nebojsa get the 3 he had? We have never heard of a Grimm network but he had the book and the keys. Now the book may self write the names a little touch of magic but how did he get the 3 real keys?
Did he get them for Grimm's like Josh dad who knew who he was after all he was 96 one could have been his or Grimms like Josh dad in Europe give him their keys. Now the problem becomes why didn't he will the books and keys to a Grimm he had the names.
Now thoughts ideas?
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - syscrash - 08-13-2016
I have only one question. Would knowing the answer to those questions change the story in any way. How does any of the speculations change the results. Which brings me to the point. why would the writers spend time thinking of these details if they do not make a difference to the show.
How the keys came to be in the trunk could have many answers. Because none of the answers would make a difference. None of the answers would be right or wrong. I like the assume the simple answer. Sean was answering from what he knew at the time it was told to him. Since then the keys situation could have changed.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - jsgrimm45 - 08-14-2016
(08-13-2016, 10:28 PM)syscrash Wrote: I have only one question. Would knowing the answer to those questions change the story in any way. How does any of the speculations change the results. Which brings me to the point. why would the writers spend time thinking of these details if they do not make a difference to the show.Here agree the number of key means nothing and changes nothing. The 5 Nick had were the correct 5 meaning that the last 2 were someplace unknown or the royals did have 2 correct keys not 4.
How the keys came to be in the trunk could have many answers. Because none of the answers would make a difference. None of the answers would be right or wrong. I like the assume the simple answer. Sean was answering from what he knew at the time it was told to him. Since then the keys situation could have changed.
The one area I would want to debate is Mr. Nebojsa and the book. The book has it's own thread so not need here, but Mr. Nebojsa role hasn't been debated. We know he was 96 so as a Grimm he lived to 96 that in itself says he was good, He had a nice house and so that tells us he had some income. He had a book with all the Grimm's why didn't he contact one and give the trunk to a Grimm? Did he think he still had time in his life to decide which one? If the book doesn't self write the Grimm's how did he get the info to track the families?
If the book does self write the Grimm's that makes finding a Grimm easy for him. Now we know it was in the script that he didn't have a will but the book ended up in the hands of someone who knew a Grimm and what the books were.
We are in the off season we have no episode to post about so we can debate things like this. We can build a backstory for Mr. Nebojsa. Thing to think about was there a Grimm network at one time and as Grimm's without children dead got their keys to him? Was he know as the de facto leader of this network? Was he the one who told Kelly about the two reaper heads? See thing like that we can build our own plot for him.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - Robyn - 08-14-2016
(08-14-2016, 06:32 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Here agree the number of key means nothing and changes nothing. The one area I would want to debate is Mr. Nebojsa and the book.
The number of keys matters, if for no reason other than the pilot episode introduced the keys and the Royals as an integral element of the Grimm storyline - seven royal families / seven keys.
Mr. Nebojsa may have survived to such a ripe old age because he wasn’t a Kelly Burkhardt type of Grimm. KB is brawn with a military/combat mind-set, seeking out and eliminating problems. Perhaps Mr. Nebojsa, having sufficient cunning to operate under the radar, took a more cerebral approach, gathering and cataloguing useful information for current and future Grimm.
It could be interesting to imagine Mr. Nebojsa’s life, but with twenty-two episodes the show had sufficient time to properly explore Mr. Nebojsa, newly discovered information of the keys’ history, Juliette’s transformation into Eve, Meisner becoming an HW operative, the Wesen uprising and the evolution of HW & BC. Of course, devoting time to the actual season arc wouldn’t have left room for Wesen of the week episodes completely disconnected from the season arc or a virus turning one of the last two humans on the show into a Wesen.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - jsgrimm45 - 08-14-2016
(08-14-2016, 07:48 AM)Robyn Wrote:Why do you see the number of keys as important? Granted we seen Marie give Nick the key and told him he must protect it, granted Renard wanted the key, granted Renard said the royals had 4.(08-14-2016, 06:32 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Here agree the number of key means nothing and changes nothing. The one area I would want to debate is Mr. Nebojsa and the book.
The number of keys matters, if for no reason other than the pilot episode introduced the keys and the Royals as an integral element of the Grimm storyline - seven royal families / seven keys.
Mr. Nebojsa may have survived to such a ripe old age because he wasn’t a Kelly Burkhardt type of Grimm. KB is brawn with a military/combat mind-set, seeking out and eliminating problems. Perhaps Mr. Nebojsa, having sufficient cunning to operate under the radar, took a more cerebral approach, gathering and cataloguing useful information for current and future Grimm.
It could be interesting to imagine Mr. Nebojsa’s life, but with twenty-two episodes the show had sufficient time to properly explore Mr. Nebojsa, newly discovered information of the keys’ history, Juliette’s transformation into Eve, Meisner becoming an HW operative, the Wesen uprising and the evolution of HW & BC. Of course, devoting time to the actual season arc wouldn’t have left room for Wesen of the week episodes completely disconnected from the season arc or a virus turning one of the last two humans on the show into a Wesen.
Later we must come to the fact if and I do mean IF the royals had 4 but now Nick has 5 how is the count working? We know because they ended up in the right place Nick's 5 were true Grimm keys, not faked.
For debate how does the number come into play? The box had 7 key holes so there were to start with 7 keys. How do you see the keys total number?
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - Robyn - 08-14-2016
(08-14-2016, 08:36 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Why do you see the number of keys as important?
Seven Royal Houses/Families
Seven Keys
Seven Key Holes
I don’t think there were suddenly nine keys. I think G & K disregarded & disrespected their original established facts about an important component of the Grimm storyline and Nick suddenly had access to five keys, picked some locks, and used Grimm blood to gain access to the artifact. G & K quickly put together a couple of episodes to resolve an integral part of the Grimm storyline that was introduced in the pilot episode without any intention to actually explore it.
What is the new magic number of keys required to open the box? Is it five? Is it three? Could Nick have simply picked all the locks and trickled some Grimm blood? Nebojsa appears to have dedicated much of his life to gathering, deciphering, and cataloguing useful items and information. Taking into account his extensive research & knowledge, why didn’t Nebojsa figure out the location & recover the artifact? Considering the sudden ease of retrieving an artifact that had alluded Grimms and Royals for hundreds of years, the box might as well have been left at Nick’s door with a note of warning to use at his own risk.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - Hell Rell - 08-14-2016
I'm someone that doesn't just care about the end results and call it a day. The journey is just as important as the destination. I always like a story more when all the details matter. It takes me out of the show a bit when I feel like the writers are changing details on the fly. I'm fine if they all add up in the end but I have a problem when continuity is broken. Later writing should not contradict earlier writing. It ends up getting to the point where I have to overlook too many things. We all have to have a suspension of disbelief but there are writers that tend to abuse this and the story ends up becoming convoluted.
The keys are a big deal because we were told how important they were in the pilot episode. That mystery was a staple of the show even if it was mostly handled in the background. It felt like the writers just wanted to wrap it up quickly instead of giving it the right attention and we end up with five keys out of seven. They could have just said there were five keys to begin with and avoided this problem. Renard says the Royals were in possession of four keys and the math doesn't add up as of now. I know it doesn't matter to everyone but the keys were given great importance right from the start and I don't think they handled the resolution very well.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - irukandji - 08-14-2016
(08-14-2016, 08:36 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: For debate how does the number come into play? The box had 7 key holes so there were to start with 7 keys. How do you see the keys total number?
I was thinking about something and wanted to put it forth for discussion. I was reading the background on the seven keys and something struck me as rather prophetic:
Renard: However, one of the seven would betray the other six. He did so, mind you, only after severe torture.
Nick: So your ancestors tortured one of mine to get his key. How'd they get the other three?
Renard: Well, let me just say there was a lot of bloodshed.
Nick unlocked the box with a jimmie and five keys. He got the treasure but from what we've seen, it's not really a big deal. What I mean is it's healed Monroe, Juliette and Nick, but what does that have to do with something more powerful than anything anyone has ever seen? Not much.
Could the seven keys actually parallel the seven scoobies: Nick, Juliette, Monroe, Rosalee, Hank, Trubel and Wu?
Renard said one of the knights betrayed the others under severe torture. Was that a prophecy concerning Juliette? If you consider her betrayal, it's not just about Nick. It was about all of the scoobies.
And what about the other two keys? Could the additional two keys parallel Adalind and Renard?
What if the something so powerful than anything anyone has ever seen is actually the scoobies *and* the stick? In order for it to work, all of the scoobies must not only be together but as keys, they must have been formed within a particular order? For example, Nick starts the order by becoming a Grimm.
In other seasons, Wu becomes a werewolf, Juliette becomes a hexenbiest, Monroe and Rosalee unite and become parents and Trubel becomes a Grimm. While Hank doesn't actually become anything, he is just as important because he remains a human. Humans would also have to be part of the mix as they are a very important part of the world Nick lives in as well.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - Robyn - 08-14-2016
That’s an interesting concept that brings together characters originally introduced as opposing forces and also examines the gray of wholly good vs. wholly bad. However, I think it requires introduction and set up prior to S5, or a least during early S5 as a discovery that tips the scale in the war against BC. Definitely more interesting than the final scene of a Grimm and his stick shutting down a global uprising. The Black Claw/Wesen Uprising was an interesting concept, but it’s execution was dreadful.
But had the show stayed with The Royals/Keys storyline, your idea would unite Adalind and Renard with team Grimm in an expected move against The Royals and would provide a direct path for Juliette to return to the fold after temporarily aligning with the Royals.
Irukandji, I wished you had been in the bullpen while S4 & S5 were being discussed and outlined.
RE: 7 VS 9 keys how could this be - Mart - 08-14-2016
(08-14-2016, 09:31 AM)Robyn Wrote: Seven Royal Houses/Families
Seven Keys
Seven Key Holes
And hopefully Seven Seasons (or more).
