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Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - Hexenadler - 06-04-2016
Can anybody really think of a reason why Eve existed, other than to keep Juliette "on ice" until S6? The entire reasoning behind her creation was insulting as hell, too: Basically, the writers are demanding we "get over" the monstrous actions Juliette committed in the previous season via Eve's dialogue about being a different person, regardless if anyone in Nick's shoes would have A) spat in her face, or B) torn it right off the moment he saw her again inside the restaurant? This is an example of the writers forcing the characters to behave like compliant automatons purely for the sake of their own convenience. Either bring Juliette back right from the start or keep her dead, but don't faff around with this "alternate personality" B.S.
And HW...where the hell to start? I know "Grimm" is a TV show working on a budget, but this isn't an excuse to cook up a shadowy organization that ultimately contributes NOTHING WHATSOEVER to the entire season. Aside from Meisner and Chavez, did we really get any idea what HW was supposed to be, other than what the writers deemed worthwhile to tell us? Since several interviews with the cast ad crew have already implied HW/BC are going to be left behind as the story moves into S6, why did they even bother introducing them at all?
And BC. Seriously...why couldn't they just keep things simple and retained the Royals as the show's main baddies? BC was a little better off than HW in the "motivation department," if only because we were given a slightly clearer picture of what their agenda was, but again, why introduce a massive arc about the Wesen rising up against the world if you're not going to deliver on that promise by the end of the season?
I know there are fans waiting in the wings to shoot holes through my criticism, but defending the creative decisions of a writing staff that has minimal (if any) respect for their viewers is questionable in itself. If season 5 didn't leave you feeling as angry and frustrated, that's great. All the power to you. I just wish I wouldn't get as worked up when a character I've come to like turns into a sock puppet at random intervals simply because the script says so.
Maybe it's for the best if S6 is the last. The writers don't seem to know what they're doing, and worse, they don't seem to care either.
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-04-2016
I am with you on this. I would have preferred to see Juliette go off to Europe with King Frederick, and possibly end up becoming the next "big bad" as she becomes the Verrat's new big gun against the Resistance, building to a climactic battle for possession of the treasure of the seven grimms. The downside of this would have been a lot more scenes set in the "European countryside" (which on Grimm seems to bear a remarkable resemblance to the Tualatin Mountains), but I think they could have done something similar to what happened with Uncle Felix, having Nick and Monroe find the stick mid-season and then having them have to fend off an attack by Juliette and the Verrat as they return to Portland to try to take the treasure. They could still have had Nick and Adalind if they wanted to, and had the royals luring Renard back to the fold using Diana and Juliette as the draw.
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - Nicholas White - 06-04-2016
They changed Juilette into Eve because alot of people were complaining that Juilette sucked and that Bitsie couldn't act. So as a joke they decided to make her an emotionless character like people were claiming Bitsie acting to be and made her useful in which people were complaining that she was useless. In the end it worked out perfectly for the storyline.
Black Claw was fine as the new big bads as the Royals can only go on for so long. The Royals have been done to death. They just needed to introduce Bonoparte way earlier in the season.
These are the things I would have changed about season 5:
1. I would have introduced Bonoparte not later than episode 7. Also already revealed him to be a Zauberbiest and starting showing powers.
2. I would have had Adalinds powers return during her giving birth to Kelly. I would have made more sense for them to show up then, given the emotional stress and physical pain she was in.
3. I would have had Bonoparte recruit Adalind for Black Claw knowing she is having the Grimm(Nick) child. Offer Adalind a Job and flexible hours and other nice perks.
4. I would have had Nick, Wu, Hank and Monroe buy an abandoned place in the woods. The place would have been bog and secluded. They would store all the Grimm stuff there. Wu would install a security system, Wifi, networks,etc. Basically Wu would have digitized all the Grimm books and created a personalized app which would allow Nick, Hank, Wu, Monroe, and Rosalee to access the database from anywhere.
5. Have Nick go on paid leave due to everything that went down with Juilette and Truble in Season 4. Also due to the fact he got into an altercation with an FBI agent. He should have been put on leave for atleast six months. Heck it didn't even have to be paid leave.
6. During his paid leave Nick should train and travel the world about tips on other Grimm related stuff like treasure chest, books, weapons, etc. He should have enough money saved up to do so.
7. Adalind explores more with her witch powers. The side effect of the suppressant begins to show up. Kelly begins to develop some powers. Adalind also begins to collect some more spell books.
I will finish later.
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - New Guy - 06-04-2016
Hi Hexenadler,
You have started a good thread. I agree with many of your comments.
Regarding FrankenEve, I would prefer Juliette had been as dead as the writers promised and was in her grave. Nick and the other characters could have provided plenty of riveting drama. NBC could have kept Bitsie on board for flashbacks that affect Nick's decision making.
Unfortunately, we are not the writers, but it is fun to speculate.
New Guy
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - izzy - 06-04-2016
(06-04-2016, 01:23 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Can anybody really think of a reason why Eve existed, other than to keep Juliette "on ice" until S6?
In all seriousness I asked someone about this. The response was that it is likely that Bitsie is somehow connected and the writers just wrote a part that played to the abilities of the actress.
Given how politics do seem to permeate most job settings, this seems plausible to me.
As for the rest of your comments I concur 100%. Sort of scary isn't it - LOL!
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-04-2016
At one point, it was planned to have Kelly Burkhardt return; don't know if it was part of the BC/HW story or not. But Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio was cast as a regular on "Limitless," which was to be shot on location in NYC, so that was the end of that. So maybe the emotionless Eve was originally supposed to be Nick's mom.
"Limitless" has been cancelled. Wonder what the odds are that Meisner's photo "proof" of Kelly's death could turn out to have been faked...
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - Vance60 - 06-04-2016
(06-04-2016, 01:23 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Can anybody really think of a reason why Eve existed, other than to keep Juliette "on ice" until S6? The entire reasoning behind her creation was insulting as hell, too: Basically, the writers are demanding we "get over" the monstrous actions Juliette committed in the previous season via Eve's dialogue about being a different person, regardless if anyone in Nick's shoes would have A) spat in her face, or B) torn it right off the moment he saw her again inside the restaurant? This is an example of the writers forcing the characters to behave like compliant automatons purely for the sake of their own convenience. Either bring Juliette back right from the start or keep her dead, but don't faff around with this "alternate personality" B.S.
And HW...where the hell to start? I know "Grimm" is a TV show working on a budget, but this isn't an excuse to cook up a shadowy organization that ultimately contributes NOTHING WHATSOEVER to the entire season. Aside from Meisner and Chavez, did we really get any idea what HW was supposed to be, other than what the writers deemed worthwhile to tell us? Since several interviews with the cast ad crew have already implied HW/BC are going to be left behind as the story moves into S6, why did they even bother introducing them at all?
And BC. Seriously...why couldn't they just keep things simple and retained the Royals as the show's main baddies? BC was a little better off than HW in the "motivation department," if only because we were given a slightly clearer picture of what their agenda was, but again, why introduce a massive arc about the Wesen rising up against the world if you're not going to deliver on that promise by the end of the season?
I know there are fans waiting in the wings to shoot holes through my criticism, but defending the creative decisions of a writing staff that has minimal (if any) respect for their viewers is questionable in itself. If season 5 didn't leave you feeling as angry and frustrated, that's great. All the power to you. I just wish I wouldn't get as worked up when a character I've come to like turns into a sock puppet at random intervals simply because the script says so.
Maybe it's for the best if S6 is the last. The writers don't seem to know what they're doing, and worse, they don't seem to care either.
I mostly agree with you. Although I don't think it was as bad as season 4. There were a few episodes in this season I found hard to watch. I thought HW was a toothless organisation and seem to lack any real idea on how to do things, i.e watching marwan in hospital seemed a stretch too far for them. There lack of ability to actually track or watch anyone. Yet BC were able to watch Wu while he recuperated, and BC had pictures of the scoobies, knew who they were and where they lived. I would have liked to seen Nick's fight with Bonaparte be more than the jedi choke hold, then have had renard stick the blade in.
So many on here keep saying (or appearing to want) Renard and Adalind getting back together, as will Nick/eve. I like the Nadalind scenario, and hope that comes to fruition with little miss purple eyes living with them and learning to get along with Nick. What on earth would possess Nick to still have such deep felings for eve? Just for arguments sake it did happen and out of spite, renard lets slip that she stayed at his place when she walked out on Nick and they bumped uglies. What would that do to Nick, is he supposed to get over that as well as The threat to his unborn son, his mother's death and kenneth in his bed? Nicks not the sharpest tool in the box but theres only so much a man can take (even with the writing on Grimm..lol)
I am looking forward to S6 as I think it will force a few issues, eve facing up to her past, renard having some serious issues to deal with over the multiple deaths at the police station, I doubt it can be swept under the carpet as th neighbors murders were. Personally, I'm also expecting renard to manipulate Diana to do his bidding and coming to a wicked demise because of it (I'd actually enjoy that).
Zuri reappears and finds a way to redeem herself in everyones eyes and Hank eventually learns to trust her. Monrosalee, have twins and help find a special wesen support group that can help eve come to terms with her past. Wu learns to have complete control over neanderthal side. Nick and the group get allocated to the running of the new HW with links to a special black ops branch of homeland or FBI to deal with wesen related crime in Portland and surrounding Towns. A pregnant Adalind and nick get married in the very last episode. Lol, I'm one of those people who needs to see things go out on a happy note.
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - speakeasy - 06-04-2016
I lack the imagination of the story teller, so I usually go along willingly in the direction in which I am taken by the writers of any show. This show is an exception because I'm made to analyze methodology, continuity, and even common sense in order to take part in the discussions here. This is the first online site I've ever participated in.
It's a mixed blessing; sometimes I'd like to bury my head in the sand and just enjoy the parade (with my head buried in the sand, poor choice of metaphor). Fans of Grimm who simply tune in each Friday of the season probably just enjoy the show and go for pizza when it's over. We who congregate here are too often left with the feeling that we've been led down the garden path and we don't like it. I'm not a happy camper about the prospect of how the show will end.
Post script - I think Bitsie is a fine actress, and have enjoyed her performances, and reject the idea that a part was written for her that was deliberately dumbed down to match some subjectively perceived lack of acting skills. Doesn't mean I like what was done to the character, I don't, but she did a very proficient job with all the roles she was given, imo.
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - Vance60 - 06-04-2016
(06-04-2016, 05:41 PM)speakeasy Wrote: I lack the imagination of the story teller, so I usually go along willingly in the direction in which I am taken by the writers of any show. This show is an exception because I'm made to analyze methodology, continuity, and even common sense in order to take part in the discussions here. This is the first online site I've ever participated in.
It's a mixed blessing; sometimes I'd like to bury my head in the sand and just enjoy the parade (with my head buried in the sand, poor choice of metaphor). Fans of Grimm who simply tune in each Friday of the season probably just enjoy the show and go for pizza when it's over. We who congregate here are too often left with the feeling that we've been led down the garden path and we don't like it. I'm not a happy camper about the prospect of how the show will end.
Post script - I think Bitsie is a fine actress, and have enjoyed her performances, and reject the idea that a part was written for her that was deliberately dumbed down to match some subjectively perceived lack of acting skills. Doesn't mean I like what was done to the character, I don't, but she did a very proficient job with all the roles she was given, imo.
I have nothing against Bitsie either. I just think she has suffered from bad story arc and often poor writing. For me, most of the storylines she was involved with went on way too long. Memory loss and subsequent arc (getting back with Nick) was pretty bad. I think if the writers go down the Juliette resurface route, Bitsies acting talent will be severely tested. the last few scenes after her encounter with the stick were pretty convincing (I think). Going to be interesting.
RE: Eve/HW/BC was a waste of everyone's time - irukandji - 06-04-2016
(06-04-2016, 05:00 PM)izzy Wrote: In all seriousness I asked someone about this. The response was that it is likely that Bitsie is somehow connected and the writers just wrote a part that played to the abilities of the actress.
Given how politics do seem to permeate most job settings, this seems plausible to me.
As for the rest of your comments I concur 100%. Sort of scary isn't it - LOL!
I was thinking about how many times I've read how wooden and boring the Juliette character was, and that's true. That said, there are some reasons for this that have little to do with whether she can act or not:
She's never been given a family.
She's never called upon to give advice or lend an ear.
We never really got to see her in practice as a vet.
She had some friends once. They're now gone.
She's mainly a filler than a character with her own feelings and ambitions. I recall her cooking dinner a couple of times and talking to Nick on the phone about what she was making. Big whoop. I also recall a time she called him, he told her he was at work and she said she was at work too! Repeat big whoop.
Juliette should have been a fleshed out character. She's the next in line of importance, after Nick. Yet we know so much about all of the other characters and so little about her.
So, onto Eve.
Still no family members coming forth to find out what happened to Juliette.
Juliette tells Nick she's Eve and always the idiot, Nick leaves it at that.
It have been great if Nick actually was suspicious of what HW did to to the love of his life and spent a couple of episodes finding out what was really going on. I actually didn't mind the Eve character though. My only nit was when she snorted the witch hat, became Renard, and slept with Rachel. That was a rather dumb plotline, but there was some laughable moments when she was explaining it to Nick. Even he managed to be funny as well. I also liked the special effects when she turned into Renard. That was very well done in my opinion.
There have been no articles that I know of about Bitsie acting all diva over boring Juliette and demanding to come back as the much more interesting Eve. Usually when actors are fighting over screen time, someone somewhere gets hold of it and runs with the story. If anything, I would think David might be the one behind this, since he's set to direct an episode(s) in the future. But I don't even believe that because I don't recall Eve having any more screen time than Juliette.