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+---- Thread: S5E20 - Bad Night (/Thread-S5E20-Bad-Night)
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - New Guy - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 10:49 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: You don't think the fact that Kelly had 10x his experience at grimming and far more knowledge of the royals/resistance conflict than he did might have had a lot to do with it?Hi Face,
In Grimm knowledge and experience are hot required. For example, it seems Rosalee has no degree in pharmacy and is not a licensed pharmacist. However she freely prepares drugs and even prescribes them on her own. This goes right along with the complaints on the forum about the cops (Nick & Co.) not following procedural rules.
New Guy
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - Robyn - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 09:05 AM)irukandji Wrote: And you know, Robyn, I was rethinking my response based on what you said! Nick's mother left him thinking she was dead. She never came back until he was well into adulthood. After reading your post, I was thinking that in some strange way, he may have been looking to please her by going along with her. In reality, he should have been madder than hell at her and not trusted her for lying to him.Kelly’s unexpected reentry into Nick’s life needed and deserved a transition period. Sadly, many shows/writers, not just Grimm, forego transition periods because it slows the preset pace of their story.
I took a writing class once upon a time and the instructor offered some really good advice about creating and developing characters. I’m paraphrasing here: A confident writer doesn’t intrude on the lives of his/her characters. Characters must be allowed to live and breathe, and when they grow and change during their journey they will move the story to the right conclusion.
Quote:We actually had an unusual family situation in my husband's family. A brother, who he never knew existed, all of the sudden showed up one day. My husband was just about Nick's age at the time, 31. That was over 20 years ago. My husband still is upset to this day that his mother never told him about his brother.That had to be an enormous shock. I hope things worked out well for the family.
(05-17-2016, 11:04 AM)irukandji Wrote:I agree with Kelly’s experience and knowledge. But I don’t think that was a deciding factor in Nick’s decision.(05-17-2016, 10:49 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: You don't think the fact that Kelly had 10x his experience at grimming and far more knowledge of the royals/resistance conflict than he did might have had a lot to do with it?
I would say not because no one thought to question her about her abilities and Kelly herself never said how she'd be able to protect Diana.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - Hexenadler - 05-17-2016
(05-13-2016, 07:14 PM)Nightschade Wrote: I think it's because Black Claw has more 'personality' than HW. HW have really done nothing to show us that we should root for them, except for that they're supposedly 'the good guys'.
I disagree with Black Claw's motives and I disagree with their methods, but they're definitely the more interesting organization.
Damn straight. I've been rooting for BC since their debut on the show, if only because they're so much more colorful than HW, who seem like a bunch of stiff-backed self-righteous fascists-in-disguise. I really hope the HW/BC storyline is dropped for good by the end of the season.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - irukandji - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 11:29 AM)Robyn Wrote: I took a writing class once upon a time and the instructor offered some really good advice about creating and developing characters. I’m paraphrasing here: A confident writer doesn’t intrude on the lives of his/her characters. Characters must be allowed to live and breathe, and when they grow and change during their journey they will move the story to the right conclusion.
Apparently there's a lot of intrusion on Nick's life. I don't think he's ever developed!
(05-17-2016, 11:29 AM)Robyn Wrote: That had to be an enormous shock. I hope things worked out well for the family.
Thanks, Robyn. Things were fine with the family. But my husband still mentions it to this day so I know it bothered him.
(05-17-2016, 11:29 AM)Robyn Wrote: I agree with Kelly’s experience and knowledge. But I don’t think that was a deciding factor in Nick’s decision.
I don't think it was a deciding factor in Nick's decision either. Ragarding Kelly's experience and knowledge, I am assuming she had both. At the same time, I continue to question what makes a Grimm besides the physical factors. It seems like it's a make it up as you go along kind of thing.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - Robyn - 05-17-2016
I’m very disappointed in the Wesen uprising storyline, especially the HW part. I agree that what little we’ve seen of BC has been interesting and techno color compared to monochrome HW. But it didn’t have to be that way. This season could have run Team Grimm ragged with standard police work, Grimm duties, working with HW against BC, and figuring out how to work around Renard. As it was, we’ve had very little of BC until the end, except for disconnected scenes on HW monitors and broken sentences from Meisner & Eve.
Bringing the Meisner character to Portland was a total waste. Nothing interesting about him in earlier seasons has been seen in S5. The Juliette/Eve transition happened much too quickly and viewers should have gotten to see the transition unfold, and Eve was revealed to Nick too soon in the storyline.
I would have much preferred HW to have recruited and trained Juliette. If Grimm wanted to make a bold move - Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest and Nick unable to accept it - then let Juliette be a Hexenbiest and consciously choose to not be in Nick’s life anymore, to make a life for herself.
And most important, if Nick had to keep up with detective, Grimm & HW work, there would have been less Nick/Adalind. Maybe then Adalind would have spent some time outside, took Kelly to the park, hung out at Starbucks, donated some sweaters to charity, GOT A JOB - for reasons other than meeting Bonaparte. And maybe, just maybe, Nick & the others would have been so busy that Adalind needed to help with Wesen related cases. You know, do something. Stranger things have happened.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - FaceInTheCrowd - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 03:26 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't think it was a deciding factor in Nick's decision either. Ragarding Kelly's experience and knowledge, I am assuming she had both. At the same time, I continue to question what makes a Grimm besides the physical factors. It seems like it's a make it up as you go along kind of thing.
There aren't even multiple factors, there's just one: the grimms have those extra cones in their eyes that enable them to see wesen. Everything else is what they learn, and in Nick's case, he hasn't had another, more experienced grimm to train him.
(05-17-2016, 03:51 PM)Robyn Wrote: I’m very disappointed in the Wesen uprising storyline, especially the HW part. I agree that what little we’ve seen of BC has been interesting and techno color compared to monochrome HW. But it didn’t have to be that way. This season could have run Team Grimm ragged with standard police work, Grimm duties, working with HW against BC, and figuring out how to work around Renard. As it was, we’ve had very little of BC until the end, except for disconnected scenes on HW monitors and broken sentences from Meisner & Eve.
What bugs me about it is that except for some superficial things like symbols and mottos, BC behaves pretty much the same way the royals did. They have schemers at the top and thugs at the bottom, and they're causing unrest and then using it to maneuver their own into power. They could just as well have continued to use Viktor as brought in Bonaparte. It might actually have been more interesting if hexebiest Juliette had been subverted away from the king by Viktor, had thrown the king off the helicopter and taken Diana to Europe and was now working with the Verrat for Viktor and training Diana to do the same.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - Robyn - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 04:09 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It might actually have been more interesting if hexebiest Juliette had been subverted away from the king by Viktor, had been the one who threw the king off the helicopter and was now working with the Verrat for Viktor.
That sounds really interesting. And I don't think I would have felt the storyline was contrived to benefit the show's star character.
They could have let Juliette be the big bad and run with it. With Juliette's connection to her past intact, the big showdown between Nick & Juliette would be have been a battle of strength, will and emotions.
A really interesting idea, FaceInTheCrowd
Edited to add: This would have also tied in with the Royals/Grimm struggle for the keys/hidden artifact. I don't read Grimm fanfiction, well any really, but done by someone who knows how to write a good story this would make an interesting fanfic.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - degrimm - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 04:27 PM)Robyn Wrote:(05-17-2016, 04:09 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It might actually have been more interesting if hexebiest Juliette had been subverted away from the king by Viktor, had been the one who threw the king off the helicopter and was now working with the Verrat for Viktor.
That sounds really interesting. And I don't think I would have felt the storyline was contrived to benefit the show's star character.
They could have let Juliette be the big bad and run with it. With Juliette's connection to her past intact, the big showdown between Nick & Juliette would be have been a battle of strength, will and emotions.
A really interesting idea, FaceInTheCrowd
Edited to add: This would have also tied in with the Royals/Grimm struggle for the keys/hidden artifact. I don't read Grimm fanfiction, well any really, but done by someone who knows how to write a good story this would make an interesting fanfic.
ok well i believe that's a joke idea right--- let me laugh hard!!!!---- cos it makes no sense for her to go to austria to do what???? lead verrat???? so let's continue destroying her character until there is no comeback.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - Robyn - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 07:49 PM)degrimm Wrote:(05-17-2016, 04:27 PM)Robyn Wrote:(05-17-2016, 04:09 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It might actually have been more interesting if hexebiest Juliette had been subverted away from the king by Viktor, had been the one who threw the king off the helicopter and was now working with the Verrat for Viktor.
That sounds really interesting. And I don't think I would have felt the storyline was contrived to benefit the show's star character.
They could have let Juliette be the big bad and run with it. With Juliette's connection to her past intact, the big showdown between Nick & Juliette would be have been a battle of strength, will and emotions.
A really interesting idea, FaceInTheCrowd
Edited to add: This would have also tied in with the Royals/Grimm struggle for the keys/hidden artifact. I don't read Grimm fanfiction, well any really, but done by someone who knows how to write a good story this would make an interesting fanfic.
ok well i believe that's a joke idea right--- let me laugh hard!!!!---- cos it makes no sense for her to go to austria to do what???? lead verrat???? so let's continue destroying her character until there is no comeback.
Maybe I misunderstood, but I think FaceInTheCrowd was talking about those events/people returning to Portland. It wasn't in addition to BC, it was a variation of the BC concept. I don't think Juliette needed to be reinvented so she'd make the desired decision. Juliette as herself should be allowed to decide whether she'll use her Hexenbiest power for good or evil, or to just be ambivalent about the concept of good and evil.
I know the show tends to drill the idea that Hexenbiest can't control their evil nature, but I think there's a few holes in that theory.
RE: S5E20 - Bad Night - FaceInTheCrowd - 05-17-2016
Before BC was brought in, Grimm was moving toward an ultimate conflict between Nick and friends and the world domination-seeking royals over the treasure of the seven grimms, with Renard's uncertain loyalties the potential spoiler. Sound familiar?
Whether that would have happened in Portland or in Pseudo Austria is anyone's guess, but not having to make Portland neighborhoods look like Austria would certainly have been less expensive to film.