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+---- Thread: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick (/Thread-HOT-SCOOP-Juliette-breaks-through-and-feels-the-love-for-Nick)
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - syscrash - 05-11-2016
It is amazing how the detractors misrepresent clips to try and prove Hexenette violent intentions. The first is the dream sequence. which if viewed in context. Was actually when she first learned she had powers and was afraid of what she might do. Yet the comment labels it as proof of her subconscious wanting to hurt Rosalee.
The next clip Is suppose to show her intent to want to hurt Adalind. Completely ignoring Adalind was the one that entered without being invited. With the purpose of abducting Juliette by force if necessary. The vidoe actually shows though Juliette wanted to hurt Adalind given the chance she could not. That many knives if Juliette had really wanted to stick one in Adalind she would have stuck it in Adalind.
The third video the comment says it proves she wanted to kill Nick. If to kill Nick was her intent why tell him to kill her. he has a gun. The idea that when Juliette was standing over Nick she was going to kill him. Of all the hexenbiest when have you seen one you physical violence to kill. or Even see one slash at some one. If Juliette had of wanted to kill him why not just snap his neck. or blow out his brains. Why the fight.
In the spice shop if Juliette was going to shoot Monroe he would be dead. We saw she has the power to take or control the gun with ease. Nick was the one struggling not Hexenette. Why people are still sticking to, "they where trying to help her" with the potion even after we see how that worked out. Shows not even knowing the result haters will still argue for the wrong decision if it fits their agenda. What is amazing they are arguing a point the writers , who control every word or action. are not intending. This idea of trying to find some hidden meaning or reasoning is ridiculous. They have not put that much thought into the show. It is written for the immediate gratification received from viewing the event.
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - New Guy - 05-12-2016
(05-11-2016, 07:38 PM)irukandji Wrote: Hello New Guy-Hi Iruk,
You made reference to my quote:
Quote:On top of the multitude of charges she could file against Hank and Nick
You then wrote:
Quote:So just to get the facts straight, please provide a list of felonies Nick and Hank committed where Hexenette could 1. file charges and 2. could go to trial with a guilty verdict. You can list all arson, assault (felonious), attempted murder and murder crimes.
The Forum Posters that see Hexenette as a violent felon can do the same for Juliette/Hexenette/FrankenEve (JHF).
To make the task easier, there is a list of "deaths" at:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Deaths
If you wish to simplify, the task the lists could be only felony crimes against JHF committed by Nick and/or Hank.
When I asked if this was in regard to the spice shop, you then responded with this:
Quote:Hi Iruk,
You can construct your list as you wish, just name the "actionable felonies" with identifiable evidence of guilt. Just be specific regarding the episode, crime scene and evidence you want to present.
The spice shop scene may not be a good choice since I do not recall any potential felonies committed against Hexenette. You can use Kershite or Vesen/Grimm standards, but identify your basis for verdict.
For example, in 4.19 Hexenette broke into Nick's trailer and set it on fire, so she is guilty of arson, a felony under Kershite law:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/arson.html
Your turn.
New Guy
Now to be fair, I want to point out that my quote was in response to a post tscchope made *and* it pertained to the spice shop. The quote and my response follow:
Quote:tscchope Wrote:
Juliettenbiest forced Nick to shot at Monroe. You can chalk up another attempted murder on Juliettenbiest's charge sheet.
Quote:I wrote:
On top of the multitude of charges she could file against Hank and Nick.
Now, I think I know what you're about to say: Irukandji's changing things around as usual. I'm not. I was specifically referencing the spice shop.
In response to your question about felonies and verdicts in general, a felony is determined by the judicial system. In order to even have it investigated, charges must be filed. As far as I know, Nick has never filed charges against Juliette for torching the trailer. Monroe and Rosalee never filed charges against her for assault, or, as tscchope stated earlier, destruction of property.
In turn, Juliette has never filed charges against Hank, Nick, Monroe, and Rosalee for coercion. They did try to get her to drink a substance they claimed would "help" her, but provided no clear explanation of what they were giving her. When she said she liked who she was and it was apparent she was going to refuse, Nick said they (meaning the scoobies, I presume) did not like what she was, which could be taken as a threat. Juliette also made the assumption Adalind took the substance and said as much, but none of the scoobies would confirm that.
Juliette could lodge a complaint against the Portland police for not clarifying their position in the spice shop. Were Nick and Hank acting as on duty policemen, assigned to the spice shop to protect Rosalee and Hank? If they were assigned to protect Monroe and Rosalee, they never explained the charges against Juliette that would cause them to be assigned as protection.
Were Nick and Hank acting under their own authority? If acting under their own authority, "helping" her to drink the potion, were they correct in using deadly force to "help" her? As "helpers" were they even allowed to bring their firearms into the shop?
Because no charges have been filed by either side, we can't say felonies were committed because not one person has been convicted of a felony. Juliette hasn't even been convicted of misdemeanor assault. Her bail was paid and she never ever did make it to court.
Many people here believe that Juliette was the sole force in manipulating and contributing to the circumstances that caused so much chaos. She did her fair share, but in point of fact, she wasn't alone. Not by a long shot.
You made some reasonable points in your dissertation however I cannot find where you provide any example of a felonious act committed by Nick or Hank against Hexenette. A felonious act and a conviction of such a felony are two very different things. I have requested the act, not the convicted act. IMO, even Wu has committed felonious acts. So it should be easy for you to reply to my request. I do not expect an exhaustive list, but surely you can provide a few to support your position.
New Guy
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - irukandji - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 04:33 AM)New Guy Wrote: You made some reasonable points in your dissertation however I cannot find where you provide any example of a felonious act committed by Nick or Hank against Hexenette. A felonious act and a conviction of such a felony are two very different things. I have requested the act, not the convicted act. IMO, even Wu has committed felonious acts. So it should be easy for you to reply to my request. I do not expect an exhaustive list, but surely you can provide a few to support your position.
New Guy
Hi New Guy-
Let me take an act that you brought up earlier, the burning of the trailer, as an example. I'll even use your words:
For example, in 4.19 Hexenette broke into Nick's trailer and set it on fire, so she is guilty of arson, a felony under Kershite law:
Your statement is a prejudicial one because you have already determined Juliette committed arson under the law. In order for this to be a felony, she has to be charged with the crime of arson, the arson has to be categorized as a felony, and she must be convicted of felony arson.
Labeling it a felonious act it still prejudging the act as a felony. All you've done is made the word an adjective. The basis of Kershite law is that a man is innocent until proven guilty. Juliette was never even charged.
The other thing that's being overlooked here is the verdict, which you are naturally assuming is felony arson. That implies a fire marshall has conclusively proven arson, that Juliette committed the arson, and the jury leveled a verdict of felony arson. That doesn't always happen. What if the jury says with the evidence found, they are reducing sentence to misdemeanor destruction of property? After all, Nick had his trailer in the forest, he wasn't living in it, and no one was in it when it was burned. I wonder if he even registered it in his name as owner or if it was still in Marie's name. Nick was rather sloppy about getting his affairs in order.
If the jury determined the evidence related more to a midemeanor, then it would not be a felony. Juliette would be guilty of a misdemeanor. So I'm still back to where I was last night. No one has committed a felony in the series because no one has been convicted of a felony. That is Kershite law.
ETA: I did exactly the same thing not long ago when I said Adalind used the spell to cause great boldily harm to Nick and so it was first degree assault. She would no more be guilty of that than Juliette because she was never charged and convicted with assault.
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - New Guy - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 05:22 AM)irukandji Wrote:Iruk,(05-12-2016, 04:33 AM)New Guy Wrote: You made some reasonable points in your dissertation however I cannot find where you provide any example of a felonious act committed by Nick or Hank against Hexenette. A felonious act and a conviction of such a felony are two very different things. I have requested the act, not the convicted act. IMO, even Wu has committed felonious acts. So it should be easy for you to reply to my request. I do not expect an exhaustive list, but surely you can provide a few to support your position.
New Guy
Hi New Guy-
Let me take an act that you brought up earlier, the burning of the trailer, as an example. I'll even use your words:
For example, in 4.19 Hexenette broke into Nick's trailer and set it on fire, so she is guilty of arson, a felony under Kershite law:
Your statement is a prejudicial one because you have already determined Juliette committed arson under the law. In order for this to be a felony, she has to be charged with the crime of arson, the arson has to be categorized as a felony, and she must be convicted of felony arson.
Labeling it a felonious act it still prejudging the act as a felony. All you've done is made the word an adjective. The basis of Kershite law is that a man is innocent until proven guilty. Juliette was never even charged.
The other thing that's being overlooked here is the verdict, which you are naturally assuming is felony arson. That implies a fire marshall has conclusively proven arson, that Juliette committed the arson, and the jury leveled a verdict of felony arson. That doesn't always happen. What if the jury says with the evidence found, they are reducing sentence to misdemeanor destruction of property? After all, Nick had his trailer in the forest, he wasn't living in it, and no one was in it when it was burned. I wonder if he even registered it in his name as owner or if it was still in Marie's name. Nick was rather sloppy about getting his affairs in order.
If the jury determined the evidence related more to a midemeanor, then it would not be a felony. Juliette would be guilty of a misdemeanor. So I'm still back to where I was last night. No one has committed a felony in the series because no one has been convicted of a felony. That is Kershite law.
ETA: I did exactly the same thing not long ago when I said Adalind used the spell to cause great boldily harm to Nick and so it was first degree assault. She would no more be guilty of that than Juliette because she was never charged and convicted with assault.
I totally disagree. Guilt may be determined by a jury however such is not required:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guilt
Quote:Hexenette is guilty of arson. The fact that she set the fire intentionally is irrefutable. If she confessed to police, she is arrested, eventually arraigned and if she pleads guilty there is no trial. Regardless, it is a fact she committed a breach of conduct that violates law and involves a penalty. This is the Grimm show and Nick must be judge and jury. From NBC recap: . . .Juliette calls Nick and tells him he might want to stop by the trailer. (her guilt confession) Nick, echoing all of us, asks, "What have you done?" (his confirmation of her guilt)
Full Definition of guilt
1 : the fact of having committed a breach of conduct especially violating law and involving a penalty; broadly : guilty conduct
2 a : the state of one who has committed an offense especially consciously b : feelings of culpability especially for imagined offenses or from a sense of inadequacy : self-reproach
3 : a feeling of culpability for offenses
Arson is a felony in Oregon:
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.325
I stand to the veracity of my statement:
In 4.19 Hexenette broke into Nick's trailer and set it on fire, so she is guilty of arson, a felony under Kershite law.
I find it rather offensive that you accuse me of "prejudice" for presenting simple facts. I have commented before, and shall repeat that "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
You have failed to produce any factual evidence to show how Hexenette did not set fire to Nick's trailer.
New Guy
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - irukandji - 05-12-2016
First, New Guy, let me explain something here. When I used the term, prejudiced, all I was saying is that you were prejudging. If you were offended, I apologize.
Quote:This is the Grimm show and Nick must be judge and jury. From NBC recap: . . .Juliette calls Nick and tells him he might want to stop by the trailer. (her guilt confession) Nick, echoing all of us, asks, "What have you done?" (his confirmation of her guilt)
Nick must be judge and jury? Based upon what? You originally spoke of Kehshite law. That is not Kehshite law.
Also, may I point out that if you believe Nick is judge and jury, you cannot then add an Oregon law to your argument. The crime is only applicable after the suspect has been charged, then gone before a jury of his/her peers, and then convicted of felony arson.
Just because you say it's felony arson, does not make it so. I too did some reading on the subject and the act can be reduced to destruction of property, particularly since in this category, it is not a permanent structure. In addition, no one was trapped in the trailer at the time of the fire, so there was no death to justify a felony charge.
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - degrimm - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 08:54 AM)New Guy Wrote:(05-12-2016, 05:22 AM)irukandji Wrote:Iruk,(05-12-2016, 04:33 AM)New Guy Wrote: You made some reasonable points in your dissertation however I cannot find where you provide any example of a felonious act committed by Nick or Hank against Hexenette. A felonious act and a conviction of such a felony are two very different things. I have requested the act, not the convicted act. IMO, even Wu has committed felonious acts. So it should be easy for you to reply to my request. I do not expect an exhaustive list, but surely you can provide a few to support your position.
New Guy
Hi New Guy-
Let me take an act that you brought up earlier, the burning of the trailer, as an example. I'll even use your words:
For example, in 4.19 Hexenette broke into Nick's trailer and set it on fire, so she is guilty of arson, a felony under Kershite law:
Your statement is a prejudicial one because you have already determined Juliette committed arson under the law. In order for this to be a felony, she has to be charged with the crime of arson, the arson has to be categorized as a felony, and she must be convicted of felony arson.
Labeling it a felonious act it still prejudging the act as a felony. All you've done is made the word an adjective. The basis of Kershite law is that a man is innocent until proven guilty. Juliette was never even charged.
The other thing that's being overlooked here is the verdict, which you are naturally assuming is felony arson. That implies a fire marshall has conclusively proven arson, that Juliette committed the arson, and the jury leveled a verdict of felony arson. That doesn't always happen. What if the jury says with the evidence found, they are reducing sentence to misdemeanor destruction of property? After all, Nick had his trailer in the forest, he wasn't living in it, and no one was in it when it was burned. I wonder if he even registered it in his name as owner or if it was still in Marie's name. Nick was rather sloppy about getting his affairs in order.
If the jury determined the evidence related more to a midemeanor, then it would not be a felony. Juliette would be guilty of a misdemeanor. So I'm still back to where I was last night. No one has committed a felony in the series because no one has been convicted of a felony. That is Kershite law.
ETA: I did exactly the same thing not long ago when I said Adalind used the spell to cause great boldily harm to Nick and so it was first degree assault. She would no more be guilty of that than Juliette because she was never charged and convicted with assault.
I totally disagree. Guilt may be determined by a jury however such is not required:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guilt
Quote:Hexenette is guilty of arson. The fact that she set the fire intentionally is irrefutable. If she confessed to police, she is arrested, eventually arraigned and if she pleads guilty there is no trial. Regardless, it is a fact she committed a breach of conduct that violates law and involves a penalty. This is the Grimm show and Nick must be judge and jury. From NBC recap: . . .Juliette calls Nick and tells him he might want to stop by the trailer. (her guilt confession) Nick, echoing all of us, asks, "What have you done?" (his confirmation of her guilt)
Full Definition of guilt
1 : the fact of having committed a breach of conduct especially violating law and involving a penalty; broadly : guilty conduct
2 a : the state of one who has committed an offense especially consciously b : feelings of culpability especially for imagined offenses or from a sense of inadequacy : self-reproach
3 : a feeling of culpability for offenses
Arson is a felony in Oregon:
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.325
I stand to the veracity of my statement:
In 4.19 Hexenette broke into Nick's trailer and set it on fire, so she is guilty of arson, a felony under Kershite law.
I find it rather offensive that you accuse me of "prejudice" for presenting simple facts. I have commented before, and shall repeat that "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
You have failed to produce any factual evidence to show how Hexenette did not set fire to Nick's trailer.
New Guy
guys you know what if we really wanted law and order, we just have to start watching the show and not incorporating it in grimm and start a debate on it.
juliette torched the trailer and assisted in kelly's death..... yes so has
hank has literally killed someone; so has nick even more than any1 and has dumped their body
renard too and adalind too has killed more than any1- so if you want to be issuing death penalties- literally every1 needs to be killed.
monroe too has killed people even more than eve/juliette
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - Hell Rell - 05-12-2016
I was just about to chime in that Monroe may have killed the most people of any major character in the cast. I'm assuming Trubel may have taken the lead during her months spent with HW but she's not a major character. I also wonder about how many deaths Renard is responsible for including the ones he may have ordered.
We've talked about Juilette being influenced by the Hexenbiest and it should be taken into account for the crimes she's committed. Nick and Renard have killed civilians when their bodies were either infected or taken over. The difference I see here is that is was clear that Nick and Renard had absolutely no control over their actions. They were clearly possessed. The same could be applied to Hank and the Mishipeshu. On the other hand, it was implied that Juliette "embraced" the Hexenbiest. She was being influenced but she did have some control over her actions. She let the power and rage consume her.
I think Juliette would be convicted of felony arson if Nick were willing to make the contents of the trailer public knowledge but that would never happen. No one needs to know about the Wesen world to see that those books were old and rare. I'm sure that there are plenty of people that would pay a substantial amount to have some of those weapons as part of their collection.
I've said before that I don't blame Juliette for defending herself and going on the attack when Adalind came in uninvited. She had every right to and I wouldn't blame her had she killed Adalind at that time. I also don't blame Adalind for coming to get answers for the kidnapping of her child which Jules clearly played a part in. I could see Nick doing the same thing especially now that he can fully realize what it's like to have your child taken from you even if it's thought to be done for your protection. I would expect Jules do something similar had she had a child.
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - irukandji - 05-12-2016
Well, here's another side to influence and this does involve Nick. How often does he use his influence as a Grimm to escalate the situation, so he's "forced" to shoot the suspect? I have often wondered how many lives would have been saved and how many people would have been brought to justice if Nick simply disguised his eyes with contact lenses so wesen wouldn't freak out at the sight of him. Could it be that, as a Grimm, he loves the thought of chasing prey down?
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - New Guy - 05-12-2016
Hello DeGrimm,
Thanks for your reply:
Quote:guys you know what if we really wanted law and order, we just have to start watching the show and not incorporating it in grimm and start a debate on it.I agree with you. The entire cast is guilty of various crimes. There have been episodes with court trials, but the main characters have never been put on trial. The issues that drive the plot are often felonious crimes, such as Hexenette setting Nick's trailer on fire or Renard murdering the hookers. IMO, it is up to the characters to judge each other and the viewers to determine guilt. I doubt if the writers will ever put the main characters on trial, but that does not relieve their guilt.
juliette torched the trailer and assisted in kelly's death..... yes so has
hank has literally killed someone; so has nick even more than any1 and has dumped their body
renard too and adalind too has killed more than any1- so if you want to be issuing death penalties- literally every1 needs to be killed.
monroe too has killed people even more than eve/juliette
New Guy
RE: HOT SCOOP: Juliette breaks through and feels the love for Nick - Hell Rell - 05-12-2016
(05-12-2016, 09:54 AM)irukandji Wrote: Well, here's another side to influence and this does involve Nick. How often does he use his influence as a Grimm to escalate the situation, so he's "forced" to shoot the suspect? I have often wondered how many lives would have been saved and how many people would have been brought to justice if Nick simply disguised his eyes with contact lenses so wesen wouldn't freak out at the sight of him. Could it be that, as a Grimm, he loves the thought of chasing prey down?
I'm certain there is a part of Nick that is in tune with his Grimm legacy. After all, he really like it when Monroe referred to him, or was it Grimms in general, as "decapitare".
I have also wondered why Nick seems perfectly fine with Wesen seeing he is a Grimm. I know intimidation can help at times but I would think most of the time hiding his true identity would be beneficial to him. I think he sees it as they would be more inclined to give him information if they're afraid of him but it can also make them make reckless and harmful decisions they otherwise wouldn't have had they not known. It almost seems like he wants to provoke some them into attacking him so he can arrest them for attacking an officer. The problem with this is that a fight between a Grimm and a Wesen can turn deadly so it's a fine line to walk.