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+--- Thread: Keys (/Thread-Keys)
RE: Keys - irukandji - 12-28-2021
How does greed fit in with the ideals of a Grimm?
RE: Keys - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-28-2021
Within the story, the most likely reason Nick went after the hidden treasure was that BC had just gone after Nebosa's chest with the books and the keys. They'd been after the book, but could he take the chance that they didn't know the story about the keys and the unknown mcguffin that supposedly could be used to rule the world? And he probably didn't trust HW with the situation either, seeing as how he never really signed up to join them. So he was now the Grimm charged with upholding the sacred family tradition of keeping the secret of the seven grimms out of the wrong hands.
In real life, the show runners probably saw the handwriting on the wall in their declining ratings and decided they'd better get on with coming up with some other season finale besides Renard getting elected mayor of Portland.
RE: Keys - irukandji - 12-28-2021
I know the keys were merely a device. The issue was the series made such a big deal out of them, the only thing they could do was throw them Nick's way. But the series never really explained why Nick decided to go after them. If Nick was so concerned about the royals getting their hands on the three keys, all he had to do was destroy his key. There was no way they were going to find the location without it. They already tried to get it from him and failed. That would have been a clear message.
RE: Keys - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-28-2021
The simplest explanation is that if Monroe, who was hardly an expert cartographer, was able to figure out the likely location without having all the keys then someone else could too. 800 years after their creation the keys were no longer the protection against discovery they once were.
RE: Keys - irukandji - 12-28-2021
The Templars were a Christian order of deeply religious men who were a new monastic order consisting of 9 men. French nobleman Hughes de Payens met with King Baldwin II of Jerusalem in 1119 offering to protect travelers to the Holy Land. They were relatively safe in Jerusalem but hundreds were attacked, robbed and murdered by bandits. The king agreed and gave them lodgings in the Temple of Solomon, from where they got their name. The Pope later gave them some extraordinary privileges. They were not required to tithe or pay taxes, and were allowed to keep any spoils they recovered from Muslim conquests.
The actual Templars followed rules set forth by abbots and popes. They became very rich, were given estates and lordships in Spain, France, and England. They were bankers and accountants to kings and had the military power to transfer treasure to and from the Holy Land.
I was curious why these 7 Templars would be working for royalty in Germany and Austria. But leave it to Rosalee. Bless her heart, but not her research. She says she traced Nebojsa's lineage back to a relative on his father's side who was a knight that fought for the Knights Templar in the sack of Constantinople. According to Rosalee, this knight was from Zollern, a town in the Black Forrest. The Templar Knights did not fight in Constantinople. It was a Christian city. The sack of Constantinople involved Christians attacking Christians. Venice was a rival of Constantinople and its ruler hated them. The Crusaders (not the Templars) owed him money that they could not pay so he ordered them to sack Constantinople and destroy it.
I was also curious as to the reason why this treasure, while different in legend, was known to both royals and Grimms alike. The Templar knights were known for their secrecy. After the loss of the Holy Land, the Templars lost favor and were rounded up to be killed. The supposed wealth and treasure that they had accumulated was never found. They were tortured, no doubt for their treasure, but the biggest concern was their practices as Templars. Some confessed to activities like spitting on the Cross because of the torture even though there was never any evidence to prove guilt.
But for 7 Grimms involved in some nefarious doings, betrayal under torture would not be a surprise.
RE: Keys - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-28-2021
Not every knight sent to the Crusades worked directly for the Church. The European royals sent their own forces in answer to the call from Rome. Nebosja's ancestor who fought for the Knights Templar may not have been one of the seven. And those seven were clearly going rogue regardless of who originally sponsored them.
Constantinople was a Christian city when it was sacked in 1204, but it wasn't ruled by the right Christians in the eyes of the western European Church. It was the capital of the Byzantine Empire. The Crusades was as much about taking down rival Christians as it was Muslims.
RE: Keys - irukandji - 12-28-2021
I'm not saying every knight worked for the church. There were Crusaders who did not. However, the Templars did work for the church. There is no evidence that they were involved in the sacking of Constantinople.
But even that's not what I'm saying. These Grimms called themselves Templars and were not.
Now that isn't Nebojsa's fault or his father's fault, or anyone in his family other than the knight himself. I just thought it interesting that these knights are held in rather high regard when they were just as shifty as the royals.
RE: Keys - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-28-2021
As I said previously, I cannot recall any mention of the seven grimm knights being Templars. I can recall the episode in which Nick's mother told him the seven worked for the royal families. Perhaps you know where any other references to the Templars can be found?
The Templars are held in high regard by those who follow the faith they ostensibly fought for. We'd probably get a different opinion from the descendants of those they fought against.
RE: Keys - irukandji - 12-28-2021
The reference is in the transcript for the episode, The Map of the Seven Knights. Most of what she says is what I stated above. I could not find the name of the knight in the transcripts.
However, TV Maze gives a recap of the episode,
"At the spice shop basement, Monroe tells Rosalee about his encounter with Eve. She finds a reference to Grigory Wolf, a Knight Templar at the Siege of Constantinople. They call Nick and remind him that they have ten hours left, and then explain that the Grimms who owned the Journal can trace their lineage back to the Crusades. Grigory is from the Black Forest, and the couple suggests that they pool their money and stall Felix as long as they can. Hank tells Nick that they have a body downtown and the officers head off."
This might be another of those instances that N_Grimm pointed out when Renard gives Nick a background on the treasure. He tells Nick what the treasure might be. None of that is in the transcript. It could be a better dialogue is actually in the episode itself.
Also, I would have answered you, but I don't see where you mentioned previously that you could not recall any mention of the grimm knights being templars.
RE: Keys - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-28-2021
I didn't actually say, "Templars," so I may not have been clear enough. It was in post #116, "Not every knight sent to the Crusades worked directly for the Church."
Nick learned from his mother, not Renard, that the seven grimm knights served the royal families. Since the Templars served the Church, knights serving the royals would not have been Templars. Or at least, they shouldn't have been; money makes a lot of things happen that shouldn't.
I'm not thoroughly familiar with the history of the Crusades, so if the Templars were not sent by the Church to participate in the Fifth Crusade's sack of Constantinople, that would have to mean that any of the grimm ancestors who were Templars were already going rogue if they went on that Crusade.