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+--- Thread: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? (/Thread-Will-Nick-and-the-crew-join-or-ally-with-HW)
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - Belle - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 04:05 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(03-02-2016, 12:14 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: That scene was also another reason I am beginning to wonder about Truble. Is she so far gone into HW that she would betray Nick if HW told her to do so?
She'd better not. After Juliette, it's safe to say Nick has pretty much had his fill of betrayal. Stabbing him in the back again would probably result in a bad time for EVERYONE involved:
http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/13663/david-giuntoli-as-nick-burkhardt-on-nbcs-grimm.jpg?w=650
I wouldn't worry about Trubel. I believe she truly loves Nick (as a brother) and would never intentionally do anything she believed would hurt him.
I think the worse case scenario would be if Meisner or Juliette tricked Trubel into thinking she was doing something that would help Nick that was actually meant to hurt him.
Though I imagine that would be hard to pull off because Trubel's pretty sharp.
It would also be playing with fire as I have little doubt she'd seek revenge once she realized she'd been tricke.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - Hexenadler - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 04:35 PM)Belle Wrote: I wouldn't worry about Trubel. I believe she truly loves Nick (as a brother) and would never intentionally do anything she believed would hurt him.
I think the worse case scenario would be if Meisner or Juliette tricked Trubel into thinking she was doing something that would help Nick that was actually meant to hurt him.
Though I imagine that would be hard to pull off because Trubel's pretty sharp.
It would also be playing with fire as I have little doubt she'd seek revenge once she realized she'd been tricke.
I'm sure there was a time when fans were convinced Juliette would never forsake Nick, but the writers found a way.
It goes to show you should never put anything past Greenwalt & Kouf.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - speakeasy - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 04:05 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(03-02-2016, 12:14 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: That scene was also another reason I am beginning to wonder about Truble. Is she so far gone into HW that she would betray Nick if HW told her to do so?
She'd better not. After Juliette, it's safe to say Nick has pretty much had his fill of betrayal. Stabbing him in the back again would probably result in a bad time for EVERYONE involved:
http://images.hngn.com/data/images/full/13663/david-giuntoli-as-nick-burkhardt-on-nbcs-grimm.jpg?w=650
I emphatically agree; I think that would be the blow that would break him psychologically. His world has been pulled out from beneath him. All of it. Imo, he is only hanging on by his fingertips emotionally and that is because of his son.
Don't know what I'm missing because I don't see Trubel betraying Nick; she really seems to love him. Since Meisner gave direct orders to stay behind in the HW HQ, maybe that was intentional on the part of the writers so that only Nick and Monroe could confront the men who killed Uncle Felix - and Monroe could get justice in the old wesen way. But she was right there in the room when the gang opened the trunk soon after.
Kinda over having characters we think we know and trust turn into virulent back-biters and that's why I hoping things are the good with Trubel.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - syscrash - 03-02-2016
I have a question?? Why all the speculation for negative out comes?? I have not found one case of the working group as I have seen it put, stabbing each other in the back. I find when they do turn a character against the group they first make them the antagonist. I find the speculations not as much on the progression of the story. But as ideas that would further support a dislike for a character.
I am losing track of what the viewers want to see. If the show removed all the things complained about, would that make them happy.
It the writers removed Adalind and Eve, would they then be happy, would it even still be a show. Why is it Sean never gets called on his actions.
I read complaints about what Trubel does not tell Nick. Yet I never read complaints about the secretes Nick keeps. You have Meisner, he did kill Sean father, and hide Diana. But not one Meisner must die.
My point is, I see why the characters do what they do. I may or may not agree with the reason but it is a reason. But why all the hate for certain characters. The constant bashing from personal attacks of the actors, to complete demonetization of the character. I read post supporting a character is nonredeemable. Until some heart warming event happens, then it is ah, it was not their fault, others made them.
As in Adalind case. I see it as all it took was have a child, and all is forgiven, anything she does is for her child. A child she sold might I add. But even that is forgiven because she recanted.
I am curious is this how these people view the world or is it just this show. Some posters I have a hard time not believing that is exactly how they think. Just curious, can someone explain.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - Robyn - 03-02-2016
(03-01-2016, 10:22 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: ...but any organization that's willing to strike deals with the Royals, break into someone's home and chloroform them on the spot, and brainwash a highly powered Hexenbiest into an emotionless automaton for their cause "because they had to," sets off a red alert inside my brain.
Are you referring to the deal the Resistance made with Viktor - kill the King in exchange for Diana?
If so, do you think it’s equally wrong/immoral that Kelly, Sean, Nick & the others made a deal between themselves to kidnap Diana to save themselves from the Royals’ threatened assault and to keep the Royals & the Resistance from having access to Diana’s powers?
I’m on the fence with Juliette. As a viewer, I know that Juliette was one big psychotic break, and that Nick had given up & wasn’t capable of killing her.
But did HW have the intel to know Juliette either had to be harnessed or put down? Did the danger that Juliette posed have any play in their decision, or would they have done the same if Juliette was trying to get control over her rage?
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - Belle - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 04:48 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(03-02-2016, 04:35 PM)Belle Wrote: I wouldn't worry about Trubel. I believe she truly loves Nick (as a brother) and would never intentionally do anything she believed would hurt him.
I think the worse case scenario would be if Meisner or Juliette tricked Trubel into thinking she was doing something that would help Nick that was actually meant to hurt him.
Though I imagine that would be hard to pull off because Trubel's pretty sharp.
It would also be playing with fire as I have little doubt she'd seek revenge once she realized she'd been tricke.
I'm sure there was a time when fans were convinced Juliette would never forsake Nick, but the writers found a way.
It goes to show you should never put anything past Greenwalt & Kouf.
Funny...I never thought Juliette could be trusted.
I actually felt the writers foreshadowed Juliette's betrayal early on.
With Trubel we've seen her entire history with Nick and he is essentially the only stable and trustworthy family figure she's had in her life.
That's a pretty big deal on it's own, but they are also both grimms and I believe that also holds a lot of sway with her.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - Hexenadler - 03-02-2016
(03-02-2016, 05:34 PM)Robyn Wrote: Are you referring to the deal the Resistance made with Viktor - kill the King in exchange for Diana?
If so, do you think it’s equally wrong/immoral that Kelly, Sean, Nick & the others made a deal between themselves to kidnap Diana to save themselves from the Royals’ threatened assault and to keep the Royals & the Resistance from having access to Diana’s powers?
Considering the Royals are a bunch of inbred black-hearted aristocrats, I'd answer in the affirmative. It's all in the context. As for the Resistance, I'd say they're no better. One of the biggest dramatic problems with GRIMM, as speakeasy pointed out, is the speed at which supposedly trustworthy characters can become "virulent back-biters." Almost everyone on this show is morally compromised in some fashion or another, and that often makes for a very depressing viewing experience. I like these characters. I want them to be better than that.
Quote:But did HW have the intel to know Juliette either had to be harnessed or put down? Did the danger that Juliette posed have any play in their decision, or would they have done the same if Juliette was trying to get control over her rage?
They saw her as a potential weapon, so they brainwashed her into one. It's as simple and straightforward as that. Meisner and HW had no interest in Juliette the person, nor the question of whether or not she could be rehabilitated, but in Eve the war-machine, which (IMO) makes them far more vile in their own insidious way than even BC at its worst.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - syscrash - 03-02-2016
Quote:Quote:
But did HW have the intel to know Juliette either had to be harnessed or put down? Did the danger that Juliette posed have any play in their decision, or would they have done the same if Juliette was trying to get control over her rage?
They saw her as a potential weapon, so brainwashed her into one. It's as simple and straightforward as that. Meisner and HW had no interest in Juliette the person, nor the question of whether or not she could be rehabilitated, but in Eve the war-machine, which (IMO) makes them far more vile in their own insidious way than even BC at its worst.
The question is... if Juliette had not been out of control would Chavez had of kidnapped her. I think you are asking if she was working with Nick would they still have kidnapped her like they did Trubel. That I question that I find could be answer equally either way.
The bigger question is if she had not been on the path of self destruction, could they have even changed her. I see Eve's whole reason for being is, they saved her. I take that as saved her from herself. I consider they convinced Trubel they where working for the greater good, now she is a believer. We know Trubel was abducted. When she was with Josh, I really don't get the feeling the approach was a lets get coffee and talk. Trubel was supposedly working with them but was abducted again from Nick's house.
Here is where I see the change and the problem people are having with HW. They judge by what they have seen Chavez do. So far Meisner has been negotiating for participation in HW. I don't see the comments recognizing the difference.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - speakeasy - 03-02-2016
This thread is about in what capacity will Nick join forces with HW, and actually I can accept any decision his character makes and be on my way. But it's a good example of how much more dark and dangerous Nick's life as a Grimm has become.
As to syscrash's query about why there appears to be an increase in negativity about the story direction Grimm is taking and the outspoken contempt of some of the characters, that is something I have also wondered about. Personally, I consciously overlook ethical considerations out of a desire to amble along in blissful ignorance so I don't have to wrestle with my conscience.
But in fairness, Grimm has slipped into using an abundance of moral turpitude of late, so I do get that it interferes with the enjoyment of the program for many viewers. Grimm used to be innocent but the natural progression of the story has led us to a baser place; inevitable, imo, for a show that features a background of groups struggling for world dominance.
RE: Will Nick and the crew join or ally with HW? - syscrash - 03-03-2016
I also find some of the moral situations they create uncomfortable. others have caused discussion. Many on this exact forum. That is why I read and post on this an a couple of others. I enjoy the exchange of ideas. I do not consider bombastic rhetoric as discussion or an exchange of ideas. To me propaganda does not prove a point. It may sell tooth paste or win elections. But to me discussion is the change of facts. If you want to editorialize. Then give actual reasons to support your opinions. Not some one sided hashtag reason.
When it comes to morally, depraved imagery. Do we remember the pilot episode. Kidnapped little girl tied in a basement crying. Pleading to go home. While some old guy in the middle of no where, does needle point while he fattens her to eat. This is the imagery they started the show with. So why do people find it so over the top, that Nick does not have issue with having sex with a hot blond. No matter how it happened.
You have baby mama drama here it is they went to far, she burned down the trailer, she is nonredeemable. But yet Jerry Springer, Murry Povich, Dr Phil, and many other day time shows have mothers with sons in bed. The list of destroyed property is long. But that is entertainment. These shows have been on forever with high ratings. Any wonder this show would want some of that market.