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+---- Thread: S5E09 - Star-Crossed (/Thread-S5E09-Star-Crossed)
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - speakeasy - 02-14-2016
(02-14-2016, 06:46 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Watching this week's previews it was De Groot in the shop with Monroe and Rosalee wonder if Alexander is with him did they come together? What does that mean for WC will De Groot help HW?
I saw that shot and also wondered if it was De Groot; hope it was, but he looked way dead to me during the shooting scene of the Wesen Council meeting.
If he's alive, I think what's left of the WC's field agents will join HW to fight the BC. De Groot declared war on the Black Claw at the meeting, which meant the WC must have had the resources to wage such a war. I hope that if this fellow isn't De Groot, that Alexander will show up and recruit everyone connected to the former WC to join the fight with HW. I don't approve of the way the HW does their training, how they did their recruiting of Trubel, and how secretive they've been, and many of their methods in general, but some of it may have been necessary in the face of how formidable and far-reaching the power of the BC has turned out to be. Kinda hard to tell the black hats from the white hats in this conflict.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - Hexenadler - 02-15-2016
(02-14-2016, 07:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote:(02-14-2016, 06:46 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Watching this week's previews it was De Groot in the shop with Monroe and Rosalee wonder if Alexander is with him did they come together? What does that mean for WC will De Groot help HW?
I saw that shot and also wondered if it was De Groot; hope it was, but he looked way dead to me during the shooting scene of the Wesen Council meeting.
If he's alive, I think what's left of the WC's field agents will join HW to fight the BC. De Groot declared war on the Black Claw at the meeting, which meant the WC must have had the resources to wage such a war. I hope that if this fellow isn't De Groot, that Alexander will show up and recruit everyone connected to the former WC to join the fight with HW. I don't approve of the way the HW does their training, how they did their recruiting of Trubel, and how secretive they've been, and many of their methods in general, but some of it may have been necessary in the face of how formidable and far-reaching the power of the BC has turned out to be. Kinda hard to tell the black hats from the white hats in this conflict.
The camera zoomed in on De Groot's body during the scene, as if to affirm to the viewers at home that yes, this guy is D-E-A-D. On the other hand, we never found out what kind of Wesen he was, so it's perfectly possible he could suddenly show up during a climactic HW/BC battle sequence and shout "Surprise, f***ers!!" (Which, ironically, would be way more badass than Juliette's return, IMO.)
Hadrian's Wall isn't any better than Black Claw from what I've seen. We can only hope this ends in a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario with the two factions wiping each other out. Then at least the human race can breathe a sigh of relief.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - wfmyers1207 - 02-15-2016
(02-14-2016, 06:46 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Watching this week's previews it was De Groot in the shop with Monroe and Rosalee wonder if Alexander is with him did they come together? What does that mean for WC will De Groot help HW?
Sorry js, but the character is referred to in the E10 promo photos as Felix Dietrich. Looks like Alexander is all that's left of the Council.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - Belle - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 09:04 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:(02-14-2016, 07:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote:(02-14-2016, 06:46 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Watching this week's previews it was De Groot in the shop with Monroe and Rosalee wonder if Alexander is with him did they come together? What does that mean for WC will De Groot help HW?
I saw that shot and also wondered if it was De Groot; hope it was, but he looked way dead to me during the shooting scene of the Wesen Council meeting.
If he's alive, I think what's left of the WC's field agents will join HW to fight the BC. De Groot declared war on the Black Claw at the meeting, which meant the WC must have had the resources to wage such a war. I hope that if this fellow isn't De Groot, that Alexander will show up and recruit everyone connected to the former WC to join the fight with HW. I don't approve of the way the HW does their training, how they did their recruiting of Trubel, and how secretive they've been, and many of their methods in general, but some of it may have been necessary in the face of how formidable and far-reaching the power of the BC has turned out to be. Kinda hard to tell the black hats from the white hats in this conflict.
The camera zoomed in on De Groot's body during the scene, as if to affirm to the viewers at home that yes, this guy is D-E-A-D. On the other hand, we never found out what kind of Wesen he was, so it's perfectly possible he could suddenly show up during a climactic HW/BC battle sequence and shout "Surprise, f***ers!!" (Which, ironically, would be way more badass than Juliette's return, IMO.)
Hadrian's Wall isn't any better than Black Claw from what I've seen. We can only hope this ends in a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario with the two factions wiping each other out. Then at least the human race can breathe a sigh of relief.
What makes you think HW is as bad as BC?
Seems to me like they are Grimm's version of the Men in Black.
They do whatever it takes to stop BC from killing innocent wesen and people without disrupting anyone anymore than they absolutely have to.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - Hexenadler - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 11:17 AM)Belle Wrote: What makes you think HW is as bad as BC?
Seems to me like they are Grimm's version of the Men in Black.
They do whatever it takes to stop BC from killing innocent wesen and people without disrupting anyone anymore than they absolutely have to.
Uh...no. Any clandestine organization that utilizes brainwashing (that's exactly what they did to Juliette, I don't care what they call it) should be regarded with utmost suspicion. You'd be amazed how quickly "whatever it takes" can be re-evaluated into "kill them all and let God sort 'em out." Meisner strikes me as the sort of fellow who strives for the so-called greater good, as does FrankenEve and Trubel. The moment anyone starts to talk about "the greater good," THAT'S WHEN YOU GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
I'm sure Captain Ramsey was doing "whatever it takes" in this clip from the movie Crimson Tide. You know what would have happened if he got his way? Nuclear holocaust. Try to visualize Meisner in Gene Hackman's place, and Nick (or Hank) in Denzel Washington's, if that helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6xNLeWkFrE
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - jsgrimm45 - 02-15-2016
What should we take for Trubels remark that WE need to know who WE can depend on. This was after telling Nick Meisenr wanted a meeting. I had leaned toward her being on Nick side whatever he decided now I see her a pure HW.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - brandon - 02-15-2016
this is a sample of what you are doing black claw.
encouraging rebellion in young people.dissatisfied and unhappy with the law. and changes the world.
It is what is making the ISIS.
Father action would not be an attempt to blame, so they do not arrest the son.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - Belle - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 11:46 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:(02-15-2016, 11:17 AM)Belle Wrote: What makes you think HW is as bad as BC?
Seems to me like they are Grimm's version of the Men in Black.
They do whatever it takes to stop BC from killing innocent wesen and people without disrupting anyone anymore than they absolutely have to.
Uh...no. Any clandestine organization that utilizes brainwashing (that's exactly what they did to Juliette, I don't care what they call it) should be regarded with utmost suspicion. You'd be amazed how quickly "whatever it takes" can be re-evaluated into "kill them all and let God sort 'em out." Meisner strikes me as the sort of fellow who strives for the so-called greater good, as does FrankenEve and Trubel. The moment anyone starts to talk about "the greater good," THAT'S WHEN YOU GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
I'm sure Captain Ramsey was doing "whatever it takes" in this clip from the movie Crimson Tide. You know what would have happened if he got his way? Nuclear holocaust. Try to visualize Meisner in Gene Hackman's place, and Nick (or Hank) in Denzel Washington's, if that helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6xNLeWkFrE
I see your point. It's kind of like the difference in how people view Snowden; he's either seen as a hero or a traitor with few people on the fence regarding their perception of what he did.
While I do see the danger in HW, I guess at the end of the day I still see them as good and necessary. Perhaps that means I could easily get sucked into the "whatever it takes" mentality when pursuing a just cause, which probably is a good way to lose sight of the bigger picture.
I even see some good in BC. While I find their methods unforgivable and practices like ritualized killing to end a drought totally unacceptable, there is really nothing wrong with the concept of wesen pride in and of itself. The way wesen are forced to suppress their identities seems to create a lot of shame and problems. When you consider that it's part of their physical make-up the idea that they have to hide what they are and act ashamed of it strikes me as cruel. There have been several episodes where I felt like wesen were really treated badly or in which their crimes were more of a product of how they are forced to live as opposed to some innate evil within them.
For me a big part of what makes Grimm entertaining it that the show really does have a lot of parallels in both real life and fiction, which range from the super serious to the lighthearted. Various episodes of Grimm will pop into my head when I'm watching the news or reading a manga.
The other day I was watching Hotel Transylvania and I kept thinking "The need a hotel like that for wesen!" I could even picture an episode of Grimm where Nick and company got called to a wesen resort to investigate a murder.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - eric - 02-15-2016
I see BC as working for world domination with all non-wessen(and some wessen
) becoming 2nd class persons. HW seems to be dedicated to preventing that. During a war stuff happens that may not be good but is necessary. I don't know of any war where bad actions were committed only by one side. As far as Juliette/Eve is concerned, I see something that was less brainwashing, more giving her a chance to accept her new life and use it for a greater cause, which she wasn't doing before--because someone cuts you off its not okay to blow up their car. I saw "you are dead" as a statement that her purely human side was dead, she is now wessen, get over it girl and move on with your life. As a sign of being a new person she has taken a new name. Malcom Little gave up his Godless life as a drug using street thug, under went a conversion, learned how to lead a new life, and changed his name to Malcom X--he never used Little again. Additional examples available upon request.
RE: S5E09 - Star-Crossed - speakeasy - 02-15-2016
(02-14-2016, 07:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote: I saw that shot and also wondered if it was De Groot; hope it was, but he looked way dead to me during the shooting scene of the Wesen Council meeting.
If he's alive, I think what's left of the WC's field agents will join HW to fight the BC. De Groot declared war on the Black Claw at the meeting, which meant the WC must have had the resources to wage such a war. I hope that if this fellow isn't De Groot, that Alexander will show up and recruit everyone connected to the former WC to join the fight with HW. I don't approve of the way the HW does their training, how they did their recruiting of Trubel, and how secretive they've been, and many of their methods in general, but some of it may have been necessary in the face of how formidable and far-reaching the power of the BC has turned out to be. Kinda hard to tell the black hats from the white hats in this conflict.
(02-15-2016, 09:04 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: The camera zoomed in on De Groot's body during the scene, as if to affirm to the viewers at home that yes, this guy is D-E-A-D. On the other hand, we never found out what kind of Wesen he was, so it's perfectly possible he could suddenly show up during a climactic HW/BC battle sequence and shout "Surprise, f***ers!!" (Which, ironically, would be way more badass than Juliette's return, IMO.)
Hadrian's Wall isn't any better than Black Claw from what I've seen. We can only hope this ends in a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario with the two factions wiping each other out. Then at least the human race can breathe a sigh of relief.
Looks like we both are thinking 'Farewell, we hardly knew ye' for poor De Groot.
I'm reserving judgement now, but am leaning toward thinking Hadrian's Wall is on the right side of this war. Simply because the stated objective of Black Claw is a world run by wesen. This was according to Eve, who may or may not have been telling the truth, but my sense is that she was.
This revolution, and that is what BC is attempting, imo - to replace existing governments with their own (sound familiar?) - must be stopped as far as I am concerned.
I think wesen have it better than kehresiten. They get to function in two worlds, I'm serious. But guess not all of them like the arrangement since they want the freedom to woge all over the place whenever the mood strikes.
But, just maybe, there are just as many wesen who prefer to keep things the same as they are and enjoy their special identities when with others of the same persuasion, while moving completely freely among human society also. Of course, the best of all worlds would be one where we all accept each other and respect everyone's rights.
Also, HW is apparently sanctioned and being financed by the government of the USA. That doesn't necessarily guarantee fair play and righteousness, I know. But whether we like it or not, the USA is the only remaining super power left on the planet and as such must take the lead in confronting threats to world peace. (Right down to creating a fictional secret gov't group fighting make-believe enemies on tv shows, haha.) I'm personally looking forward to the day when we can move over and let some other countries help shoulder some of this burdensome responsibility but for the time being, the rest of the world looks to us to step in.
So, until something is revealed to change it, my feeling is that HW is trying to stop something bad.