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+--- Thread: Nick (/Thread-Nick--2315)
RE: Nick - irukandji - 02-12-2016
(02-12-2016, 07:54 AM)tscchope Wrote:(02-12-2016, 07:16 AM)irukandji Wrote: his heart was never in it. I think Juliette was more open about it than he was.Juliette had concealed the fact she was a hexenbiest from Nick. She'd used her powers against the wesenrein and manticore. When she decides to tell Nick it's show first. No thought about how Nick's going to react to the love of his life changing into his mortal enemy. To cap it off, she walked out on him.
If she hoped Grimm's blood would be the answer, she was out of luck. She may have expected Nick to rush out after her, butthat's a bit much to excpect after telling someone 'I don't need you any more'.
I'd respectfully suggest you watch the reveal episode again, with a more open mind.
No need to, thanks for the suggestion. Juliette concealed the hexenbiest from Nick for a very good reason. She told Nick, she was afraid he would kill her.
But no matter what you believe or what I believe, neither one of us is caving on our position. I believe we should just leave it at that.
RE: Nick - New Guy - 02-12-2016
(02-12-2016, 07:54 AM)tscchope Wrote:Hello Tscchope and Irukandji,(02-12-2016, 07:16 AM)irukandji Wrote: his heart was never in it. I think Juliette was more open about it than he was.Juliette had concealed the fact she was a hexenbiest from Nick. She'd used her powers against the wesenrein and manticore. When she decides to tell Nick it's show first. No thought about how Nick's going to react to the love of his life changing into his mortal enemy. To cap it off, she walked out on him.
If she hoped Grimm's blood would be the answer, she was out of luck. She may have expected Nick to rush out after her, butthat's a bit much to excpect after telling someone 'I don't need you any more'.
I'd respectfully suggest you watch the reveal episode again, with a more open mind.
The transcript of the scene under discussion reads:
Quote:Scene: Nick takes his gun out and points it at Juliette after seeing her woge.IMO, Juliette shows confusion (what has happened) and fear (cannot be undone and Nick would possibly kill her). Nick feels betrayed (she went to Renard first) They both feel guilty for what has happened, "It's what we wanted."
Nick: You're not Juliette. You're Adalind. What did you do with her?
Juliette: [She retracts] Nick, it's me.
Nick: I don't believe you.
Juliette: Listen, you you proposed to me on this couch. You had a ring. I said no. You hid it upstairs in the dresser drawer. I found it. Adalind would never know that.
Nick: [He points his gun down] How did this happen?
Juliette: I don't know. I didn't know what was happening at first. I was really nauseous. I thought I was pregnant. I had headaches. And then it just happened. And it's been happening more and more. It's how I killed the guy from the tribunal. [Flashback of the back of Jonah Riken's head exploding in "Tribunal"] And the Manticore. [Flashback of Juliette killing Jonathon Wilde in "Maréchaussée"] And how I almost just killed Adalind.
Nick: Why didn't you tell me?
Juliette: Because I was scared.
Nick: [He puts his gun away] Look... we're gonna figure this out, and get rid of it.
Juliette: We can't.
Nick: Why not?
Juliette: It's permanent.
Nick: You don't know that.
Juliette: I do. Henrietta told me.
Nick: Who's Henrietta?
Juliette: The Hexenbiest who's been helping me figure this out.
Nick: You've been seeing a Hexenbiest?
Juliette: I had to. I didn't want to hurt you.
Nick: Well, how did you find Henrietta?
Juliette: Sean Renard.
Nick: You told him before you told me?
Juliette: I needed help, Nick. His mom's a Hexenbiest. He's half Zauberbiest.
Nick: You should have told me.
Juliette: [Crying] I was afraid you were gonna kill me.
Nick: Juliette, I would never hurt you. Never. This is all because of me. This is... because I became a Grimm again.
Juliette: Well, we took a chance, you know? We knew that there might be side effects. It's what we wanted.
Nick: Juliette, I am so sorry. [He opens the front door]
Juliette: Nick, where are you going?
Nick: I don't know. [He leaves]
At this point I do no see either of them accepting the hexenbiest side effect.
New Guy
RE: Nick - syscrash - 02-12-2016
Quote:Nick: [He puts his gun away] Look... we're gonna figure this out, and get rid of it.
Thanks for the exact quote.
So why not after Nick talked to Henriette, and realized Juliette is now and forever will be a hexenbiest. Not switch his attention to the benefits of how being a hexenbiest saved her life. Talk about how she thought having a gun would keep her safe. Being a hexnebiest would definitely keep her safe. Like I said in the opening post what is the down side of being a hexnebiest. Instead he goes down the road of denial. Even after she makes it clear she has come to grips with being a hexnebiest. She has even changed her perspective from being cursed to being given a gift. By the time Nick and Rosalee talked to her in jail she had done nothing to make them think she was out of control. Sure she was annoyed with Nick's denial of the situation. In the bar the guy was a jerk. He buys her a couple of drinks and is upset when she drinks an runs. She had not even touched him till he tried to put his hands on her after she woged. Trying to grab her that is a no no. Should she have scared him? Think of her wogeing in his face as waving a .45 under his nose so he would back off.
It was not until jail where Nick and Rosalee completely in denial, rejected her acceptance of her reality, something to this day I don't understand, that she became dangerous. Even then she still had control, until Kenneth pushed her button with the news about Adalind. At that point she completely lost it. I don't know many women that would not have gone off the deep end behind news like that.
Did she over react? Considering any and everyone she could turn to for support is in denial about her situation. The women who has been the source of your aggravation is now having her boyfriends baby. Then have that same boyfriend tell her to leave while he protects said women. Walking out the station I can't imagine anybody not have one major case of being really pissed off.
RE: Nick - tscchope - 02-12-2016
New Guy, Thanks for the scene transcript.
RE: Nick - brandon - 02-13-2016
Nick could not help understand the change and failure.
He remembers on one occasion when she did come back to reality-for the "Musai".
now has an opportunity to adalind, he could not do for Juliette.
No one can save everyone.
RE: Nick - tscchope - 02-13-2016
I took my own advice and went and watched the episodes ,I stress episodes not episode, with an open mind. I found I had telescoped several episodes into one and reworked conversations putting in my own interpretations instead of what was said. I watched to the end of 4:16. Nick hadn't told Rosalee and Monroe that Juliette was a hexenbiest. Rosalee great line 'Juliette's a freaking hexenbiest' meant she couldn't have known before Juliette showe up in the Spice Shop. Consistent storylines, one which keeps Nick going to Rosalee and Monroe when there's a wesen matter he can't resolve, put aside on the grounds that a great line is rarer and must be accommodated.
The actual Juliette hexenbiest reveal goes on and on. It appears the characters suffer amnesia from one episode to another. I interpreted Juliette's 'no, Nick you can't protect me, I'll have to do that myself' as 'I don't need you anymore' and moved it into 4.14 where much of the reveal takes place. syscrash has called me on other instances. I own up and will be more careful in future,
I felt at the time and still feel the Juliette hexenbiest reveal would have been more effective, more powerful done in one episode and with Nick piecing together the clues. He's solved cases with fewer clues than Juliette's a hexenbiest. Starting with Juliette reading about hexenbiest in the trailer. Having watched the episodes, I can confirm no-one told Juliette where Nick had moved the trailer to. If it was done, the scene got deleted and didn't make it. If she'd been doing general reading, there'd have been no need to try to hide the fact.
Onto 4.14. Juliette goes all hexenbiest on Nick (end of 4.13) and Nick draws his gun. He thinks its Adalind up to her old tricks and says so. Juliette talks fast, literally, and convinces Nick that she is Juliette. Nick holsters his gun and the scene follows the transcript New Guy posted. In terms of side effects, Elizabeth says Nick may experience some. She says nothing about Juliette and she's probably a more powerful and experience hexenbiest than either Henrietta or Adalind.
Nick's left to think about his love for Juliette, but gets called away on a case. He sleeps on a couch and wakes to Juliette coming down the stairs with sunlight streaming in to the house. I remember this scene perfectly. It's not explained if Nick regularly slept on the couch after a very late night or if this is just because Juliette's a hexenbiest. In this episode we see Renard suffer his bleeding incident. Henrietta's last visitor before Sean and the Ripper comes to kill her is Adalind. Henrietta tells her she's pregnant again.
I have to wait to the end of 4.14 for Juliette to leave Nick. She goes hexenbiest on him and tells him he can't even look at her. This is her forever face. Nick is actually resisting what she trying to do to compel him to kiss her. It's not explained whether Nick's success is due his adapting to resist what Henrietta demonstrated or just because Juliette isn't skilled enough.
Henrietta appears to read Nick's mind. She tells him he's two options. Kill Juliette or accept her as a hexenbiest. He can't kill her, so he'll have to accept her. He'll tell Juliette she learnt to accept him as a Grimm, so he can learn to accept her as a hexenbiest. Henrietta advises Nick give Juliette space whilst she's learning to control her powers or it will get messy. Nick's phone cals in subsequent episodes show his concern for Juliette , but he's not heeding Henrietta's advice.
Henrietta says that 'I am not as skilled as she will become'. I had to rewatch that a few times to make sure Henrietta used the pronoun there in place of Juliette. If Henrietta means Juliette, why not say her name? That brought to mind Nick's dream in the first ever episode about Juliette walking through the Black Forest, though you couldn't see her hair colour. That may indicate Eve will follow Nick to Germany and that the transformation in Juliette's character arc was planned from the get-go. Henrietta is positive Juliette will learn to control her powers off her own bat. The shows been overselling Juliette is dead, there's only Eve far too much. Eve's only a convenience for Juliette is what I think this means. I think she's still bad news for Nick.
So after a night's sleep in her car, Juliette goes to stay with Renard until she's figured out what she is. Err, just just said to Nick that your hexenbiest face was your 'forever face'. The following morning she says 'before I met you people I was normal, I want my life back. If i don't get it, you'd better watch out'. Okay, so now you don't want to be a hexenbiest. Nick finally tells Hank who asks if it's reversible. Nick says not from what they say. I draw from that Nick accepts what Juliette is, but would still like to be able to change it. Hank's there for support. Hank's accepting the information that Juliette is a hexenbiest.
Flip to 4:16 and Nick says he'll help try to change Juliette's transformation and Juliette asks 'why?' Nick responds with 'because I love you' to which Juliette laughs in his face.She's then exceedingly patronizing. Nick's supportive and reasonable. He'll accept Juliette as a hexenbiest, but he's not going to stop until he's found a cure for a situation he believes is his fault. But is it? Juliette's not open to being helped and has already ended her relationship with Nick. in 4:16 she's just come to collect her things.
Henrietta tells Nick that the Grimm's Blood is not an option because of what Adalind did to Juliette. Adalind tells Renard that if Nick had help becoming a Grimm again that explains why Juliette is a hexenbiest. I must be slow because there's no explanation given for either. Adalind's potion was to steal the Grimm's powers not do anything to Juliette. There's no logical reason given why Grimm's Blood wouldn't have worked. Elizabeth was the one who made the counter-potion to restore Nick's powers. Again, there is nothing being done to Juliette. Adalind didn't explain the 'explanation'.
Adalind did overcome the effect of Grimm Blood in successfully completing the Contaminalis Ritualis. That should have meant Grimm's Blood no longer had any effect on any hexenbiest. It's not what Henrietta said. She didn't trust the Grimm, perhaps. She didn't tell Adalind how Juliette got so good so fast, either. Adalind had already experienced Juliette's powers.
So what then was the side-effect Nick was supposed to suffer? I believe the ripper was originally have been set on taking up residence in Nick. That was changed to Renard a story line, explaining how Kenneth was able to beat him up and explained by the link Elizabeth and Sean share due to the means she used to bring him back to life. I think it worked better with Renard than it would have with Nick.
Nick was protecting and siding with his unborn son in the Police station and Juliette ought to have been arrested.
HW worked to help Juliette heal and to use her powers as Eve. Juliette would have done both, but it would have taken longer. Nick should have Henrietta's warning that Juliette will become more skilled and able to use her power constantly in his mind, when in her presence.
Did Nick receive an off screen phone call from Elizabeth that told him to play dumb, go along with things, but told him what was going on? I'd like to believe so. It would make everything a lot more believable.
RE: Nick - brandon - 02-13-2016
Henriette told what to kill Nick could have been a prediction.
somewhat misleading phrase.as the prophecies.
Nick he moved his trailer to buy land that Juliette to a friend and had put his name.
Renard what Jack and right.after all Jack is a spirit of the dead.
regarding blood Nick adalind serious than was already immunized for it.
serious theory that Nick passed it to Juliette in the relationship they had to was to undo the spell.maybe Nick was the removal of the side effect.
and perhaps Juliette was better than adalind their powers by not born that way.Rosalie said they were more deadly.
so serious that a change is not so easy to accept.
RE: Nick - syscrash - 02-15-2016
Nick started as having a boring stable home life with Juliette. Then he became a Grimm. And piece by piece the stable home and family is moving Nick to be more of a loner. Nick has gone from sitting down having dinner over a bottle of wine, and being social. To grabbing a beer out of the fridge. Hank used to be his partner, now Hank is more Nicks back up. Nick and Hank use to always work together, Nick goes on his own more and more.
This isolation Nick is moving toward. Is what will keep Nick and Adalind apart. Adalind trying to get Nick to re-connect to people, will be what shows Adalind has changed. It will show Adalind is a good person. They are going to make her past a phase she was going through. Like she said She was happy as a lawyer before Nicks aunt came to town. Mari's arrival initiated Sean taking Adalind down her Evil path. I see ADalind become the strong stable single mom. Her life going toward where Nick came from. This will put Nick at the cross road again. Does he go back to having a normal life with Adalind and his son. our does he stay a Grimm. Adalind will make him pick one. She will no longer want to live under the danger of Nick being a Grimm. Even when she gets her powers back she will not be a practicing hexenbiest. Being around Nick will force her to have to use her powers for protection which she will hate. Eve will have a problem with Nick because he will not commit to being a Grimm. Nick will try to act like a cop with a life. But he can't be a cop with a life, because he won't give up being a Grimm.
RE: Nick - brandon - 02-15-2016
when some boys "Wesen" they throw eggs,
Juliette makes mention of how they are on neighbors.Juliette had friends but not Nick-perhaps only work-
RE: Nick - jsgrimm45 - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 01:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: Nick started as having a boring stable home life with Juliette. Then he became a Grimm. And piece by piece the stable home and family is moving Nick to be more of a loner. Nick has gone from sitting down having dinner over a bottle of wine, and being social. To grabbing a beer out of the fridge. Hank used to be his partner, now Hank is more Nicks back up. Nick and Hank use to always work together, Nick goes on his own more and more.That is really a paradox inside an enigma good writing.
This isolation Nick is moving toward. Is what will keep Nick and Adalind apart. Adalind trying to get Nick to re-connect to people, will be what shows Adalind has changed. It will show Adalind is a good person. They are going to make her past a phase she was going through. Like she said She was happy as a lawyer before Nicks aunt came to town. Mari's arrival initiated Sean taking Adalind down her Evil path. I see ADalind become the strong stable single mom. Her life going toward where Nick came from. This will put Nick at the cross road again. Does he go back to having a normal life with Adalind and his son. our does he stay a Grimm. Adalind will make him pick one. She will no longer want to live under the danger of Nick being a Grimm. Even when she gets her powers back she will not be a practicing hexenbiest. Being around Nick will force her to have to use her powers for protection which she will hate. Eve will have a problem with Nick because he will not commit to being a Grimm. Nick will try to act like a cop with a life. But he can't be a cop with a life, because he won't give up being a Grimm.
