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+--- Thread: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve (/Thread-Adalind-vs-Juliette-Eve)
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RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Mrtrick - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 12:32 PM)Tara Wrote: No I can't and will not accept it. Sorry, but I am a Nickliette shipper - and for me is Adalind the woman who ruined it for Nickliette and destroy everything by participating in the transformation from Juliette into a Hexenbiest. So why is Adalind the better woman for Nick instead Juliette? This is an honest question. I do not want to argue, but what makes Adalind different from Juliette?
It's not about Adalind being better than Juliette. It's just about the fact that everyone is in a vastly different emotional space than they were at the beginning of the series. For someone who shipped Nick and Juliette, I can understand why the end of any hope for their romantic future would pain you. In the early years, I was all for them. I was heartbroken when Juliette seemed to meet her dark end. But I did my mourning at the end of season four. Whether she ever returned or not, I knew there was no fixing this. Unlike Adalind's past misdeeds, Juliette's were a much more personal betrayal. Scars that may heal, but never fade.
Adalind entered as a villain. The epitome of the ancient Grimm, Wesen conflict. Through the first couple of seasons, this tension followed tradition. But once she had Diana, and her vulnerability and humanity started to emerge, we were already headed on a slow path to her redemption. It was coming whether she ended up with Nick or not. People who distrust Adalind and rally behind Juliette, seem to assume conspiracy because Adalind's assent to humanity and Juliette's descent into madness, crossed streams in those final episodes of season four. As if Adalind was out to steal everything from Juliette. But in the end, it was just a series of dominoes, tipped over in episode one, converging at that moment. You can blame Adalind and rail at the universe for it's injustice, but she can't fix it. Bad as she feels about what happened, she can't do anything more than say she's sorry. And Eve herself knew that the best way forward was to be their best selves now.
As to why Adalind is the right woman for Nick, instead of Juliette, it's because the old Juliette is gone. And so is the old Nick. When he was with Juliette, she was the right woman. Before he knew he was a Grimm, she was the right woman. When he was trying to figure out how to live with this new identity, she may still have been the right one. But in the aftermath of season four, Nick and Adalind had to learn a new way of doing things, together. Both came from broken histories. Preconceived notions of Grimm and Hexenbeist. But they fell in love because of the people they were getting to know. It wasn't because Juliette was less, but because in the void of what they had lost, and exultation of what they found in Kelly, here was something they could build a new foundation on. Something new to both of them, which they could explore together. As we leave them in the series finale, they're both primed to dive into a domestic life they find equally rewarding. Children of broken families, seeking home and hearth. And after twenty years together, Nick and Adalind fully represent the post modern Grimm that the writers reference. Unburdened by past prejudices and joined by a desire to be more than what history has told them they're allowed to be. The legacies they were born into will evolve into something far greater. And that means as much as it does because of who they are. Adalind isn't better than Eve but she is the right woman for Nick. What she wants is the same things Nick wants. A life together with kids to raise. A new legacy to build. That's not what Eve wants anymore. And she'd be the first to tell you, that makes her the wrong one.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - FaceInTheCrowd - 04-09-2017
I always figured that HW had brokered some sort of truce between the royals and the resistance, based on BC being bad for both sides. How else to explain the apparent disappearance of both from the scoobies' lives?
After BC's destruction, the truce would probably break down and the two sides would resume hostilities. Hence Meisner's "for now" reply when Renard asked him if Viktor was on the throne.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Robyn - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 04:21 PM)irukandji Wrote:My point was that Meisner purposely mislead Renard by allowing him to assume the Resistance had Diana. Yes, Meisner was with HW when he took Diana and killed the King at the end of S4. But Meisner never told Renard about HW and his involvement. Renard received secondhand information from Nick, and he was surprised to learn that Meisner didn’t tell him.(04-09-2017, 04:12 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-09-2017, 03:55 PM)irukandji Wrote:No. It turned out later Meisner "friends" was HW.(04-09-2017, 03:48 PM)Robyn Wrote: I thought Meisner insinuated that the Resistance had Diana. He referred to her being with friends after telling Renard that Viktor worked a deal with the Resistance - the King’s assassination in exchange for Diana. It makes sense that Renard would assume that ‘friends’ meant friends in the Resistance. And he wouldn’t likely contact the Resistance, especially Tavitian, because of his S3 betrayal.
Is the resistance HW then?
Then I believe Meisner lied to Renard and he was with HW. He knew exactly where Diana was. That wouldn't have been possible if he wasn't with HW.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - irukandji - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 05:21 PM)Robyn Wrote:(04-09-2017, 04:21 PM)irukandji Wrote:My point was that Meisner purposely mislead Renard by allowing him to assume the Resistance had Diana. Yes, Meisner was with HW when he took Diana and killed the King at the end of S4. But Meisner never told Renard about HW and his involvement. Renard received secondhand information from Nick, and he was surprised to learn that Meisner didn’t tell him.(04-09-2017, 04:12 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-09-2017, 03:55 PM)irukandji Wrote:No. It turned out later Meisner "friends" was HW.(04-09-2017, 03:48 PM)Robyn Wrote: I thought Meisner insinuated that the Resistance had Diana. He referred to her being with friends after telling Renard that Viktor worked a deal with the Resistance - the King’s assassination in exchange for Diana. It makes sense that Renard would assume that ‘friends’ meant friends in the Resistance. And he wouldn’t likely contact the Resistance, especially Tavitian, because of his S3 betrayal.
Is the resistance HW then?
Then I believe Meisner lied to Renard and he was with HW. He knew exactly where Diana was. That wouldn't have been possible if he wasn't with HW.
I agree.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 05:27 PM)irukandji Wrote:I agree too.(04-09-2017, 05:21 PM)Robyn Wrote:(04-09-2017, 04:21 PM)irukandji Wrote:My point was that Meisner purposely mislead Renard by allowing him to assume the Resistance had Diana. Yes, Meisner was with HW when he took Diana and killed the King at the end of S4. But Meisner never told Renard about HW and his involvement. Renard received secondhand information from Nick, and he was surprised to learn that Meisner didn’t tell him.(04-09-2017, 04:12 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-09-2017, 03:55 PM)irukandji Wrote: Is the resistance HW then?No. It turned out later Meisner "friends" was HW.
Then I believe Meisner lied to Renard and he was with HW. He knew exactly where Diana was. That wouldn't have been possible if he wasn't with HW.
I agree.
(04-09-2017, 04:21 PM)irukandji Wrote:(04-09-2017, 04:12 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:(04-09-2017, 03:55 PM)irukandji Wrote:No. It turned out later Meisner "friends" was HW.(04-09-2017, 03:48 PM)Robyn Wrote: I thought Meisner insinuated that the Resistance had Diana. He referred to her being with friends after telling Renard that Viktor worked a deal with the Resistance - the King’s assassination in exchange for Diana. It makes sense that Renard would assume that ‘friends’ meant friends in the Resistance. And he wouldn’t likely contact the Resistance, especially Tavitian, because of his S3 betrayal.
Is the resistance HW then?
Then I believe Meisner lied to Renard and he was with HW. He knew exactly where Diana was. That wouldn't have been possible if he wasn't with HW.
I saw Meisner as a double agent. He let the resistance think was still working for them so he could kill the king. Afterwards he gave Diana to HW.
Yes, Meisner knew exactly how to extract that information out of the HW database himself.
In season 4, someone in the resistance betrayed Meisner and that is why the verrat was there at the airplane for Kelly, Adalind and Diana.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - syscrash - 04-09-2017
Mrtrick I am glad to see someone understands that characters. What I want to add about who is right fro Nick. As Nick became more of a Grimm and became more willing to act as a Grimm. His thinking would have been in conflict with how Juliette thought. Once Juliette became a hexenbiest Juliette's thinking became more inline with Nick. But it quickly progressed to a point where Nick thinking started to conflict with the new Juliette known as Eve. Adalind is in agreement with most of what Nick does. When she isn't she chooses to not make it an issue. At all points Juliette has never been willing to not express her opinion about what Nick does.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Devegs - 04-09-2017
(04-09-2017, 04:32 PM)Mrtrick Wrote: It's not about Adalind being better than Juliette. It's just about the fact that everyone is in a vastly different emotional space than they were at the beginning of the series. For someone who shipped Nick and Juliette, I can understand why the end of any hope for their romantic future would pain you. In the early years, I was all for them. I was heartbroken when Juliette seemed to meet her dark end. But I did my mourning at the end of season four. Whether she ever returned or not, I knew there was no fixing this. Unlike Adalind's past misdeeds, Juliette's were a much more personal betrayal. Scars that may heal, but never fade.
Adalind entered as a villain. The epitome of the ancient Grimm, Wesen conflict. Through the first couple of seasons, this tension followed tradition. But once she had Diana, and her vulnerability and humanity started to emerge, we were already headed on a slow path to her redemption. It was coming whether she ended up with Nick or not. People who distrust Adalind and rally behind Juliette, seem to assume conspiracy because Adalind's assent to humanity and Juliette's descent into madness, crossed streams in those final episodes of season four. As if Adalind was out to steal everything from Juliette. But in the end, it was just a series of dominoes, tipped over in episode one, converging at that moment. You can blame Adalind and rail at the universe for it's injustice, but she can't fix it. Bad as she feels about what happened, she can't do anything more than say she's sorry. And Eve herself knew that the best way forward was to be their best selves now.
As to why Adalind is the right woman for Nick, instead of Juliette, it's because the old Juliette is gone. And so is the old Nick. When he was with Juliette, she was the right woman. Before he knew he was a Grimm, she was the right woman. When he was trying to figure out how to live with this new identity, she may still have been the right one. But in the aftermath of season four, Nick and Adalind had to learn a new way of doing things, together. Both came from broken histories. Preconceived notions of Grimm and Hexenbeist. But they fell in love because of the people they were getting to know. It wasn't because Juliette was less, but because in the void of what they had lost, and exultation of what they found in Kelly, here was something they could build a new foundation on. Something new to both of them, which they could explore together. As we leave them in the series finale, they're both primed to dive into a domestic life they find equally rewarding. Children of broken families, seeking home and hearth. And after twenty years together, Nick and Adalind fully represent the post modern Grimm that the writers reference. Unburdened by past prejudices and joined by a desire to be more than what history has told them they're allowed to be. The legacies they were born into will evolve into something far greater. And that means as much as it does because of who they are. Adalind isn't better than Eve but she is the right woman for Nick. What she wants is the same things Nick wants. A life together with kids to raise. A new legacy to build. That's not what Eve wants anymore. And she'd be the first to tell you, that makes her the wrong one.
Very eloquently put.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - FaceInTheCrowd - 04-09-2017
And probably hopeless as far as persuading any shippers.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 04-10-2017
(04-09-2017, 11:10 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: And probably hopeless as far as persuading any shippers.
I agree. When someone cares more about who a character is having sex with rather than the character has a life that has meaning to them then that is a problem.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - syscrash - 04-10-2017
I have noticed there are two types of viewers. The ones who view the show how the writers wrote it. Then there are the viewers that can only see it based on how they live their lives. So many base their interpretation on their own personal views of what should be. They completely ignore what was written or the writers intent.
What I also find interesting is some try and parse out scenes that where only meant to bridge story lines. Kelly's death is a good example. It was only a few quick frames that warped up a number of story points. I setup a reason for the conflict between Nick and Juliette. Provided and excuse for Nick's attack on the Royal's ending the Royal story line. It bridged Diana's transfer. It also gave Mastrantonio an exit. It was never meant to be a memorable moment. They wanted the viewers to remember she was dead not how she died. They want Nicks battle to be the important battle. Not Kelly's last fight. Even on the series ending no one get a good final fight scene except Nick. They got a final death scene. Mastrantonio most likely would have gotten one too if she had been available to film one.