+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve (/Thread-Adalind-vs-Juliette-Eve)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Devegs - 03-22-2017
(03-22-2017, 06:56 AM)Robyn Wrote:(03-22-2017, 06:04 AM)Robyn Wrote: Consider - If Adalind raped Nick then it stands to reason that Eve raped Rachael. If Adalind’s motivation of getting her baby back doesn’t justify her having fraudulent sex with Nick, should Eve wanting BC information justify her having fraudulent sex with Rachael?
And yet, it didn't spur a debate while Adalind's actions have been debated since the episode aired.
It makes me question what's actually being discussed. A crime/sin or good guys vs bad guys. It seems that on the show and with a large portion of the viewership, it's not so much what was done but who did it.
I have always wondered this myself. There are no long debates about Eve and Rachel or Nick and Juliet as Adalind (would that be a ménage à trois rape?).
The rape debate issue about Nick and Adalind is typically thrown around and kept alive by 'shippers. Of course not everyone that has presented this argument is a shipper.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - rpmaluki - 03-22-2017
(03-22-2017, 07:35 AM)Devegs Wrote:Nick and Juliette actually talk like they just had a threesome immediately after, just before to reverts back to looking like herself, it's so weird and awkward when you consider where we are now.(03-22-2017, 06:56 AM)Robyn Wrote:(03-22-2017, 06:04 AM)Robyn Wrote: Consider - If Adalind raped Nick then it stands to reason that Eve raped Rachael. If Adalind’s motivation of getting her baby back doesn’t justify her having fraudulent sex with Nick, should Eve wanting BC information justify her having fraudulent sex with Rachael?
And yet, it didn't spur a debate while Adalind's actions have been debated since the episode aired.
It makes me question what's actually being discussed. A crime/sin or good guys vs bad guys. It seems that on the show and with a large portion of the viewership, it's not so much what was done but who did it.
I have always wondered this myself. There are no long debates about Eve and Rachel or Nick and Juliet as Adalind (would that be a ménage à trois rape?).
The rape debate issue about Nick and Adalind is typically thrown around and kept alive by 'shippers. Of course not everyone that has presented this argument is a shipper.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - irukandji - 03-22-2017
(03-22-2017, 07:35 AM)Devegs Wrote: The rape debate issue about Nick and Adalind is typically thrown around and kept alive by 'shippers. Of course not everyone that has presented this argument is a shipper.
Actually I'm surprised the Nadalind shippers hadn't thought of this one. It's really more their style.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Devegs - 03-22-2017
On instagram and on the facebook page, if a picture of Nick and Adalind is put up, out storm shippers with... 'No! His true love is Juliette. Adalind raped him. How can NBC and the grimm writers allow this?"
If a picture of Nick and Juliette is out out, out storm shippers with... "NO! Juliette killed his mother. He deserves to be with Adalind."
Like I said, not everyone that has presented an 'issue' is a shipper but for the most part these are the arguments that 'shippers' hold on to and stick to.
All the characters have blood on their hands aside from baby Kelly, so far.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - irukandji - 03-22-2017
(03-22-2017, 08:13 AM)Devegs Wrote: On instagram and on the facebook page, if a picture of Nick and Adalind is put up, out storm shippers with... 'No! His true love is Juliette. Adalind raped him. How can NBC and the grimm writers allow this?"
If a picture of Nick and Juliette is out out, out storm shippers with... "NO! Juliette killed his mother. He deserves to be with Adalind."
Like I said, not everyone that has presented an 'issue' is a shipper but for the most part these are the arguments that 'shippers' hold on to and stick to.
All the characters have blood on their hands aside from baby Kelly, so far.
Thanks for the clarification. Your previous post made it seem like you were pointing fingers at posts on the forum. For me, I can't see a debate about Eve and Rachel lasting more than a few posts. These two characters are despised, so in reality, who cares if they have sex or if one raped the other?
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - New Guy - 03-22-2017
(03-22-2017, 07:59 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:Hello Forum,(03-22-2017, 07:35 AM)Devegs Wrote:Nick and Juliette actually talk like they just had a threesome immediately after, just before to reverts back to looking like herself, it's so weird and awkward when you consider where we are now.(03-22-2017, 06:56 AM)Robyn Wrote:(03-22-2017, 06:04 AM)Robyn Wrote: Consider - If Adalind raped Nick then it stands to reason that Eve raped Rachael. If Adalind’s motivation of getting her baby back doesn’t justify her having fraudulent sex with Nick, should Eve wanting BC information justify her having fraudulent sex with Rachael?
And yet, it didn't spur a debate while Adalind's actions have been debated since the episode aired.
It makes me question what's actually being discussed. A crime/sin or good guys vs bad guys. It seems that on the show and with a large portion of the viewership, it's not so much what was done but who did it.
I have always wondered this myself. There are no long debates about Eve and Rachel or Nick and Juliet as Adalind (would that be a ménage à trois rape?).
The rape debate issue about Nick and Adalind is typically thrown around and kept alive by 'shippers. Of course not everyone that has presented this argument is a shipper.
Here are a couple of items From Google. First:
Quote:In the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.And:
Quote: Rape:Also:
noun:
unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.
Quote:Rape of males. A significant proportion of victims of rape or sexual violence incidents in general are male. ... In the United States, sexual violence against men, like women, is under reported.IMO, "force" and "consent" are key to determination of rape.
The intercourse of Juliette (disguised as Adalind) with Nick was with both of them consenting and without force, IMO not rape. The intercourse of Adalind (disguised as Juliette) with Nick was done with Nick's consent garnered only by the theft of Juliette's identity, IMO debatable. Similarly, FrankenEve stole Renard's identity, but intercourse was initiated by Rachel, that is bizarre! Who "raped" whom?
N G
(03-22-2017, 08:13 AM)Devegs Wrote: On instagram and on the facebook page, if a picture of Nick and Adalind is put up, out storm shippers with... 'No! His true love is Juliette. Adalind raped him. How can NBC and the grimm writers allow this?"Well said Devegs! N G
If a picture of Nick and Juliette is out out, out storm shippers with... "NO! Juliette killed his mother. He deserves to be with Adalind."
Like I said, not everyone that has presented an 'issue' is a shipper but for the most part these are the arguments that 'shippers' hold on to and stick to.
All the characters have blood on their hands aside from baby Kelly, so far.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - FaceInTheCrowd - 03-22-2017
WRT Renard and Rachel...
When the man says, "this never happened to me before," and the woman says, "it's all right," then changes the conversation to something other than sex, intercourse didn't happen.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - New Guy - 03-22-2017
(03-22-2017, 09:17 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: WRT Renard and Rachel...Hi Face,
When the man says, "this never happened to me before," and the woman says, "it's all right," then changes the conversation to something other than sex, intercourse didn't happen.
Perhaps when FrankenEve smoked the hat to become fake Renard she developed E D. Another failure to plan ahead? Did real Renard need some Viagra help when Hexenette initiated sex back in 4.17 "Hibernaculum?" If so then she visited Rachel ill prepared.
N G
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - FaceInTheCrowd - 03-22-2017
I think Eve didn't foresee Renard and Rachel having a sexual relationship, definitely a planning failure. Whether the plumbing didn't function or Rachel just didn't push Eve's buttons, no idea.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - irukandji - 03-22-2017
(03-21-2017, 06:08 PM)Robyn Wrote: There wasn’t a scene that showed or even hinted that Adalind had sex with anyone other than Nick since conceiving Diana. I agree that if Grimm was continuing, G & K would likely have Nick suspect Kelly isn’t his in order to create woe-is-me Nick drama and damage the relationship. But in order for that to have any substance, they’d have to create a scene/flashback or have Adalind admit to something that wasn’t shown in S3 or S4.
If the writers wanted to throw a wrench in Nick/Adalind they could just as easily have her inexplicably become bad again and rediscover her Renard itch. The show has never bothered with foolproof explanations or motivations.
I thought it weird that the issue of Kelly's paternity hadn't come up, period. For one thing, Adalind showed up completely out of the blue to declare it was Nick's baby she was carrying. Most men would have demanded a paternity test in that situation. Instead, Nick says nothing because surprise, surprise, Juliette shows up just in the nick (no pun intended) of time to disrupt things. Conveniently forgotten.
When Elizabeth was making the reversal potion, she morphed into Adalind because, according to her, she felt slutty. Why make such a comment?
Just because we don't see Adalind having sex with anyone after Diana gets kidnapped doesn't mean it didn't happen. She had to get in touch with the royals before being assigned to take Nick's powers away. I can't say she didn't sleep with anyone during that time frame. It's not like going to bed with someone takes months and months. Adalind's skilled in the sexual arts. I can imagine she could make anyone go to bed with her, if she wants.
The other thing I thought was strange also involved Elizabeth. She specifically asked Rosalee for a birth control agent (I can't recall the name right off) when she's making the reverse potion. The episode made a point of Elizabeth asking Rosalee for the herb. Now according to the directions she's following, she's making the exact spell. The only difference is that Nick and Juliette must perform it in reverse. I wonder why Adalind is pregnant if Elizabeth used exactly the same spell.
Then we have the timing of the pregnancy itself, which is way off.
Finally, we have the creative team skirting around the issue of Kelly's paternity. Which, in my opinion, leaves it open for another time.
I know timeframes in series don't always adhere to real time. But I haven't seen any arguments to effectively convince me that Kelly is truly Nick's baby.