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+--- Thread: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve (/Thread-Adalind-vs-Juliette-Eve)
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RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Kwu9888 - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 05:37 PM)irukandji Wrote:(03-20-2017, 05:02 PM)Robyn Wrote:(03-20-2017, 04:41 PM)irukandji Wrote: Adalind's pregnancy with Kelly was in question. The timeline for Kelly does not match a nine month pregnancy.Okay, so it's only that the timeline isn't sufficiently close enough to nine months.
The show has neither confirmed the gestation period was accurate for a Grimm/Hexenbiest pregnancy or brought the short gestation period into question.
An assumption that the gestation period must be approximately nine months if Nick is the father, can't conclude that Nick is in fact the father.
But if you're assuming the gestation period must be nine months because the show didn't confirm differently, why are you assuming the baby can't be Nick's even though the show hasn't confirmed differently?
Take the timeline. When Henrietta confirmed Adalind's pregnancy, how far along would she have been? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? That means at most, a 6 week time frame since she slept with Nick. Yet, consider what has all transpired during that time. Monroe and Rosalee got married, Nick lost his powers, Monroe and Rosalee were searching for a cure, Nick and Juliette were talking about the possibility of Nick remaining Grimmless, Renard gets shot and dies, Elizabeth pops in to save his life, Elizabeth is informed of the spell and must find Catherine's spell book, Elizabeth has to figure out a spell, Nick and Juliette wait until Monroe and Rosalee are attacked before deciding to reverse Adalind's spell, Juliette begins to suffer effects of the spell but doesn't tell Nick, Juliette goes to Renard, Juliette goes to Henrietta, Henrietta takes Juliette's blood and tests it, Juliette becomes a full fledged hexenbiest. Nick visits Henrietta, Adalind visits Henrietta.
I'm sure I've missed some things here.
So the question is, all of this and possibly more took place in six weeks? How?
Okay, take it a step further. When Adalind's pregnancy is confirmed, it's mid season 4. I'm estimating there are perhaps 10 episodes left before the season finale. Grimm doesn't slip ahead months, the stories progress in real time. Right away in season 5, Adalind gives birth to Kelly. So there's maybe a total elapsed time of what? 12 weeks from the time the pregnancy is confirmed until she gives birth?
The point I was trying to make here is that there has really been nothing to confirm Nick is the father. So, if the creative team decided, one fine day Adalind could come up to Nick and tell him he's not Kelly's father.
They're not going to do that now. The series is ending. But it could have been a definite possibility if the series progressed to a season 7.
The question behind this is who could be the father? I haven't a clue. I was just pointing out that it doesn't seem possible that Nick is the father. For that matter, maybe he's sterile. You have to wonder why Marie pegged him as the last of the grimms.
All I want to say here is that there had to have been at least 3 months maybe even 4 in TV time from the time Nick and Adalind had sex until Henrietta told Adalind she was pregnant I mean a lot happened before the tribunal and Juliette and the hat and sex with Nick as Adalind then we had Juliette turning into a hexenbiest and not saying anything for weeks then when she did they separated for a couple of weeks at least so by the time she told Nick she was probably almost 5-6 months. But I can't believe this is even being discussed why would you doubt Nick is Kelly's father it doesn't make any sense to me unless people just want everyone to think badly of Adalind I would think Nick would be the last person she would try to pin this on.Now if you want to discuss who we really think Diana's father is that makes much more sense to me and I can get aboard that train. Just my lonely little opinion.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - FaceInTheCrowd - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 05:37 PM)irukandji Wrote: Take the timeline. When Henrietta confirmed Adalind's pregnancy, how far along would she have been? 4 weeks? 6 weeks?
If Adalind's pregnancy followed the usual nine month human process, it could have been as long as 10-12 weeks. That's when the average woman's baby bump first appears. You'd expect her to have noticed missed periods and get morning sickness earlier than that, though. Did they ever mention any of that during her first? I don't remember.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Robyn - 03-20-2017
Quote:The point I was trying to make here is that there has really been nothing to confirm Nick is the father. So, if the creative team decided, one fine day Adalind could come up to Nick and tell him he's not Kelly's father.But we’re still basing everything on assumptions that haven’t been confirmed or questioned on the show.
We can surmise that -
Adalind’s pregnancy with Diana was reduced to six months due to the ritual, or that Hexenbiest and Zauberbiest coupling results in six month pregnancies
Grimm and Wesen or Human coupling results in standard nine-month pregnancies
- but the show hasn’t confirmed or questioned these details.
I completely agree that if the show was going past this season, Nick suddenly questioning Kelly was his biological child might be used to cause conflict in the relationship. But at this point, the show hasn’t offered any reason to question it other than ignoring the real world timeline for a pregnancy. And considering that Grimm has never bothered with specifics or believability, I don’t find this strange compared to other storylines and events.
In all likelihood, because they could reasonably establish a six-month gestation period, G & K simply didn’t bother using prosthetics to extend the pregnancy beyond the first episode in S5. I’m not convinced they’d bothered if having only a four-month pregnancy.
IIRC, someone said S6 spanned thirteen weeks. So Rosalee would be three to four months along at the finale. But unless something is said that suggests Rosalee’s due date, we don’t know if her pregnancy will come to term around six months like Adalind’s or in nine months like we’d expect in real life.
I can’t remember if they actually discussed the due date in the obstetrician visit episode. If anyone knows, that information could be helpful.
Quote:For that matter, maybe he's sterile. You have to wonder why Marie pegged him as the last of the grimms.I think the show introduced that the Grimm emerged when a family member Grimm died and later dropped it, much like it introduced Grimms as dying out and never mentioned it again. Trubel met other Grimms in her travels with HW. Plus, the Grimm heritage book probably wouldn’t have been such a big deal to Bonaparte if the Grimm line was dying out due to their inability to reproduce.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - syscrash - 03-20-2017
The problem with the show choosing to make Nick not the father. There is no alternative theory established.
There is no doubt there are things about the time line that are off. But according to the dates shown on the show nine months could have past since she sleep with Nick.
March 19, 2014 "The Show Must Go On" begins as the date was on the ticket stubs of the murdered women.
This is the episode just before Synchronicity.
February 18, 2015 "Hibernaculum" ends as the date was on Wu's tablet at the scene of the Cabbie's body.
This is the episode near the end of season 5.
This shows that from the time Diana came to portland to the time Adalind gave birth was close to a year in Grimm time. So the nine months do exist. Plus there is nothing in the show that gives Adalind a chance to have had sex between this time period. There is the one scene while Adalind was staying with Sean while working on taking Nick powers. In the station Sean was adamant he had not gotten Adalind pregnant.
The only part where the timeline is off is Adalind not knowing she was pregnant when Henretta told her. She would have had to be a few months into the pregnancy. Also she goes from having the fight to getting in Sean truck and the pregnancy is obvious. Yet she does not know until Henretta tells her.
We know the writers decided to use Clair's actual pregnancy. plus there was a break break between the two episode. You can not use the physical to disprove the shows premise. Clair's physical appearance is what it is. That is just like the last episode where scenes went from covered in snow to no snow at all. You can not read anything into that. The writers can not control nature.
But even trying to use dates shown on the show are not a good gauge of time. The props people a lot of time use the current date when they are creating the prop unless the date has significance in the story.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - izzy - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 03:20 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Izzy, since you are not watching season 6 don't think your viewpoint will be out of date?
Nope. IF anything significant happened there would be a thread discussing it. Also G&K have yet to clean up any of their messes. Maybe in the finale they will actually reveal how Nick & Juliette met and what moved them into a relationship in the first place - naw. .
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - WispyWillow - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 08:23 PM)izzy Wrote:(03-20-2017, 03:20 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Izzy, since you are not watching season 6 don't think your viewpoint will be out of date?
Nope. IF anything significant happened there would be a thread discussing it. Also G&K have yet to clean up any of their messes. Maybe in the finale they will actually reveal how Nick & Juliette met and what moved them into a relationship in the first place - naw. .
nick told juliette how they met during season 2. she asked him during the amnesia storyline.
she witnessed an accident
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Nicholas White - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 06:52 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(03-20-2017, 05:37 PM)irukandji Wrote: Take the timeline. When Henrietta confirmed Adalind's pregnancy, how far along would she have been? 4 weeks? 6 weeks?
If Adalind's pregnancy followed the usual nine month human process, it could have been as long as 10-12 weeks. That's when the average woman's baby bump first appears. You'd expect her to have noticed missed periods and get morning sickness earlier than that, though. Did they ever mention any of that during her first? I don't remember.
Adalind wouldn't have been worrying about missed Periods as she was locked away in a cellar for a long time seeing illusions. It was only a couple of days after she was released from the cellar that she found out she was pregnant.
Also there has been a lot of cases where Women don't even know they are pregnant until they give birth. Every pregnancy isn't the same. Some people show earlier than others and vice versa.
With that being said we actually don't know the biological makeup of wessen. Hexenbiest pregnancies might be totally different than other beings. Adalind has been the only Hexenbiest we have seen pregnant.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - izzy - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 03:20 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote: Izzy, since you are not watching season 6 don't think your viewpoint will be out of date?
Nope. IF anything significant happened there would be a thread discussing it. Also G&K have yet to clean up any of their messes. For example as the ever delightful Robyn stated above:
(03-20-2017, 07:10 PM)Robyn Wrote: I think the show introduced that the Grimm emerged when a family member Grimm died and later dropped it, much like it introduced Grimms as dying out and never mentioned it again. Trubel met other Grimms in her travels with HW. Plus, the Grimm heritage book probably wouldn’t have been such a big deal to Bonaparte if the Grimm line was dying out due to their inability to reproduce.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - syscrash - 03-20-2017
Quote:Also there has been a lot of cases where Women don't even know they are pregnant until they give birth. Every pregnancy isn't the same. Some people show earlier than others and vice versa.Trying to attribute this to Adalind condition ignores the fact of how these examples happened. These examples occurred in women who's bodies would not show a pregnancy. These women also had other medical issue that caused irregularities in their bodies to naturally occur. Some where just a lack of knowledge of how pregnancies occur. All women do not know how their period work.
With Adalind's body a pregnancy would be obvious. It may first be seen as a unexplained weight gain. But after a couple of months the changes would have caused concern. Especially since this is not her first pregnancy. Plus Adalind is an educated women and any change in her body would be noticed. It wold not matter if she was or was not in a dungeon. Her body would have still reacted the same.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 03-21-2017
(03-20-2017, 06:52 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(03-20-2017, 05:37 PM)irukandji Wrote: Take the timeline. When Henrietta confirmed Adalind's pregnancy, how far along would she have been? 4 weeks? 6 weeks?
If Adalind's pregnancy followed the usual nine month human process, it could have been as long as 10-12 weeks. That's when the average woman's baby bump first appears. You'd expect her to have noticed missed periods and get morning sickness earlier than that, though. Did they ever mention any of that during her first? I don't remember.
Many women have very irregular periods and/or no morning sickness. Morning sickness is individual baby related since it partly based chemical the fetus produces so one pregnancy can have serious morning sickness while the next one none.
I don't have a 28-day menstrual cycle, and neither should you
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/i-dont-have-a-28-day-menstrual-cycle-and-neither-should-you/
Why You Might Not Have Morning Sickness
http://www.parents.com/pregnancy/my-body/morning-sickness/no-morning-sickness/
(03-20-2017, 05:37 PM)irukandji Wrote: Take the timeline. When Henrietta confirmed Adalind's pregnancy, how far along would she have been? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? That means at most, a 6 week time frame since she slept with Nick.Many women have only a few periods a year so expecting these women to know they are pregnant at 6 weeks makes no sense. Women bodies have a lot of natural variation for what we are talking about and are not clocks.
Yes, some Grimm shows have one or two months between information in the shows like tickets dates.
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
(03-20-2017, 09:06 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Also there has been a lot of cases where Women don't even know they are pregnant until they give birth. Every pregnancy isn't the same. Some people show earlier than others and vice versa.Trying to attribute this to Adalind condition ignores the fact of how these examples happened. These examples occurred in women who's bodies would not show a pregnancy. These women also had other medical issue that caused irregularities in their bodies to naturally occur. Some where just a lack of knowledge of how pregnancies occur. All women do not know how their period work.
With Adalind's body a pregnancy would be obvious. It may first be seen as a unexplained weight gain. But after a couple of months the changes would have caused concern. Especially since this is not her first pregnancy. Plus Adalind is an educated women and any change in her body would be noticed. It wold not matter if she was or was not in a dungeon. Her body would have still reacted the same.
One woman's pregnancy can be very different than the next. Research supports large natural variation among women not that women do not understand their bodies as the biggest issue. Women are not clocks.
Length of pregnancy can vary by up to five weeks, scientists discover
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/length-of-pregnancy-can-vary-by-up-to-five-weeks-scientists-discover-8749081.html
(03-20-2017, 09:06 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:Also there has been a lot of cases where Women don't even know they are pregnant until they give birth. Every pregnancy isn't the same. Some people show earlier than others and vice versa.Trying to attribute this to Adalind condition ignores the fact of how these examples happened. These examples occurred in women who's bodies would not show a pregnancy. These women also had other medical issue that caused irregularities in their bodies to naturally occur. Some where just a lack of knowledge of how pregnancies occur. All women do not know how their period work.
Studies keep showing more and more natural variation among women and still be healthy. Healthy women can have irregular periods, have or not have morning sickness and different length pregnancies and all be healthy.