(03-20-2017, 01:54 PM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: True, fatherhood is more than a piece of paper with DNA testing results. It encompasses so much more including choices and decisions and way of life. If Nick decided that Kelly is his and went out of his way to cement that belief then he's the father.

(03-20-2017, 02:01 PM)irukandji Wrote: The discussion didn't center around what Nick believes. It actually had to do with Adalind and the timeline for her pregnancy and the possibility that baby Kelly was not Nick's.

(03-20-2017, 01:54 PM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 01:28 PM)Robyn Wrote:

Quote:Let me be clear that I wasn't letting the scoobies off the hook for kidnapping Diana.

If this is in response to my comment, I was only responding to FitC suggesting possible charges against Adalind. Not that it was one-sided, but that involving the court in any fashion would open up a big can of worms for everyone.

Quote:Whether there can be legal charges brought against Adalind for raping Nick or not, there's a reason the genders wouldn't be flipped on this one. A character doing a terrible thing doesn't make them a terrible character but I feel like that's the way it's being taken in a lot of cases.

Absolutely.


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In response to be the Nick paternity debate - Isn't it really a matter of what Nick believes or choices he makes, such as not requesting definitive proof?

True, fatherhood is more than a piece of paper with DNA testing results. It encompasses so much more including choices and decisions and way of life. If Nick decided that Kelly is his and went out of his way to cement that belief then he's the father.

(03-20-2017, 02:41 PM)Robyn Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 01:54 PM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: True, fatherhood is more than a piece of paper with DNA testing results. It encompasses so much more including choices and decisions and way of life. If Nick decided that Kelly is his and went out of his way to cement that belief then he's the father.

So true. Izzy and I discussed this a while back, and I thought a nice way to clear up any question of the biological father would be for Nick to see the paternity test, but for viewers to never know the test results. Nick would be a father because he biologically was or because he chose to be. Either way, Nick is a good guy who stepped up and put the child first during a very difficult situation.

(03-20-2017, 02:01 PM)irukandji Wrote: The discussion didn't center around what Nick believes. It actually had to do with Adalind and the timeline for her pregnancy and the possibility that baby Kelly was not Nick's.

Okay timeline - Adalind was with Meisner for a few days after Diana was born, recuperating and on the run. Kelly left with Diana within 24 hours of them arriving in Portland. Two - four days (?) passed between the kidnapping and Adalind performing the spell.

She didn’t have sex with Renard unless it was off screen. Renard was absolutely certain the second baby wasn’t his, and Adalind didn’t challenge him. Adalind was immediately put in the dungeon when arriving at the castle. She didn’t have sex with Viktor unless it was off screen, and Kenneth confirmed Viktor is sterile, and Adalind didn’t challenge him.

So when did Adalind have sex with someone other than Nick, unless she popped into a bar for a quickie between the time Kelly left with Diana and she arrived at Nick’s to perform the spell?

Do you not believe at all that Adalind having a child compelled her to make a better life for herself and her child? I know this has been debated to the nth degree and some will never believe Adalind capable of change. But Adalind had her powers back moments after Diana was born, which is all she wanted in the beginning. She could have made arrangement to trade the baby in exchange for the Royals leaving her alone, she could have given the baby to the Resistance in exchange for safe passage out of Europe, she could have heeded Kelly’s advice on the plane that being on the run with a child was a difficult way to live. But she didn’t do any of those things, and actually, told Kelly the Royals or whoever would have to kill her to get her baby.

So for me, Adalind had neither the time nor the desire to have sex with anyone. She wanted her daughter and was willing to do whatever was necessary to get her back.

(03-20-2017, 02:41 PM)irukandji Wrote: We weren't talking about who Adalind had sex with. I speculated that Kelly wasn't Nick's because the timeline was off. Adalind's pregnancy wasn't confirmed until well into season four. She gave birth immediately in season 5. That isn't a nine month pregnancy.

(03-20-2017, 02:41 PM)irukandji Wrote: We weren't talking about who Adalind had sex with. I speculated that Kelly wasn't Nick's because the timeline was off. Adalind's pregnancy wasn't confirmed until well into season four. She gave birth immediately in season 5. That isn't a nine month pregnancy.

(03-20-2017, 02:59 AM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: http://www.mytakeontv.com/2015/12/11/claire-coffee-spills-the-tea-on-grimm-s5/
This is the interview Claire gave. She says the writers told her they were writing her pregnancy in the storyline and kid was going to be Nick's kid.
I will also get other interviews for you if this doesn't suffice

(03-20-2017, 03:18 PM)izzy Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 02:59 AM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: http://www.mytakeontv.com/2015/12/11/claire-coffee-spills-the-tea-on-grimm-s5/
This is the interview Claire gave. She says the writers told her they were writing her pregnancy in the storyline and kid was going to be Nick's kid.
I will also get other interviews for you if this doesn't suffice

I am not trying to bust your chops on this, but to me, until it is part of the show, as in committed to digital media it is not part of the storyline.

If we were to follow that logic then indeed Juliette was dead (as just one example).

Also actors and actresses are told things about characters all the time that are not true and are simply quipped to them in terms of getting into character and characters evolve radically in some shows. We know Juliette was suppose to be a Baker not a Veterinarian, Renard was suppose to be an old. gruff, with a heart-of-gold character etc. Yet none of that was true. We also know season 5 was radically altered after filming and scenes deleted and then new one inserted that totally changed the storyline. So what the actors were told was the story arch was changed.

The forum had a discussion about scenes that were filmed but then cut and it was ruled (by the conversation) that while interesting they could not be considered part of the storyline. I find that analogous t hearsay by the actors and actresses. I tis even more telling when you ask an actor or actress fro how they prepared for the role. Often this will reveal how little direction they are really given or how little they actually know about the character they are trying to portray. Ergo they tend to desperately cling to things that are said, even if in passing.

I'll give you one more example: Bonanza. Very seldom do you see the original episodes. And there is a reason for that. The original idea was that the Cartwrights were a very tight knit clannish and very standoffish family who was united against all and defended the borders of the Ponderosa using lethal force. Ben Cartwright was suppose to be a holier-than-thou bible thumper who administered justice according to the bible(this part of the script was actually used in an episode of Gunsmoke) It was initially commuted to film as such. Yep, the lovable Cartwrights shot at people on their land, they shot first and asked questions later. Their relationship with the citizens of Virginia City was strained to say the least. That is how the series started and then it radically changed.

My point is, until it is committed to film (and even after that) things change. What an actor or actor is told isn't necessarily so. And if you ever read after production articles on shows, you will find even the writers often do not agree about a character or plot line. What ends up on film, due to editing, often alters the narrative.

So while i appreciate your effort we see things from a different perspective in terms of relevance and reliability.

Cheers...

(03-20-2017, 02:51 PM)MarylikesGrimm Wrote:

(03-20-2017, 02:41 PM)irukandji Wrote: We weren't talking about who Adalind had sex with. I speculated that Kelly wasn't Nick's because the timeline was off. Adalind's pregnancy wasn't confirmed until well into season four. She gave birth immediately in season 5. That isn't a nine month pregnancy.

1) Many do not realize they are pregnant until late. Otherwise the timeline is perfect.

2) Adalind's Diana pregnancy was 6 months.

Quote:Well, that could jive with Renard as he was zauerbiest. But Nick is a Grimm. That would make a difference in gestation I would think.

Quote:...but to me, until it is part of the show, as in committed to digital media it is not part of the storyline.

If we were to follow that logic then indeed Juliette was dead (as just one example).