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+--- Thread: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve (/Thread-Adalind-vs-Juliette-Eve)
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RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 03-19-2017
(03-19-2017, 09:54 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: If Nick continued to love Kelly as his despite knowing the truth, the situation would be no different than what's playing on screen, Kelly's life would still be in danger because of him.
And if Kelly turned out to be a "bad seed" type of wesen, having watched Nick during the El Cuegle episode, Nick can't act any different. He'll still see Kelly as his son and try and shield him as best as he could. Nick acts on the facts presented to him in the now, not what may or may not happen. It wouldn't matter to Adalind one way or another, because Kelly is her baby and she’d protect him with her life. Could Nick and Adalind find themselves on opposite sides regarding Kelly's fate? It's still too early to tell. He just found out Diana committed murder, twice and it didn’t even register and Diana's not even his daughter.
Is Kelly a bad wesen because his father is Nick or not? If Sean is the father of Kelly he would be a zauberbiest.
Kelly's life danger because he related to Nick. He can live safely without Nick if they are not related. Kelly has not been in danger yet (may change!!) because of his father grimm activities as much as the fact is father is a grimm.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - rpmaluki - 03-19-2017
(03-19-2017, 09:49 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: The whole scenario of Nick not being the father and Adalind running a con would be a terrible idea this late in the game. That gotcha moment would waste the centuries old mystery of the stick and cloth. How the scoobies deal with the ultimate threat wouldn't matter because it would be completely overshadowed by Nick's baby mama drama. That would be the only discussion worth having so the keys, the stick, the cloth, the mystery, the battle, and the resolution would be a complete waste of time.Whatever fans think of Adalind's character, Kelly's paternity is a settled matter, Adalind's completely smitten with Nick, to the detriment of her character and individuality. There's never going to be a Mauri-like reveal that Nick is not the father, not after paddling so far the current narrative showing Nick's movement as a character as a Grimm and his relationships with the people he loves. I don't see them regressing anything in the last two episodes AND fighting a demon bent on world domination at the same time. If this season was character driven instead of plot driven, there would have been a chance to reverse much of what was done to these characters and I'm sure at the top of that list is the reinstating of the Nick and Juliette relationship as a "coming full circle" journey for characters but that is not the story that's being told.
Grimm isn't real a fairytale, at least not the kind where the characters we feel for the most get their happily ever after and those we feel deserve punishment, get their just deserts. This show has subverted that trope as early as season 1. I feel the show speak more about a coming of age type of story, an acceptance that life is messed up but you don't sit and wallow in self pity, you pick yourself up and make lemonade out of the lemons. Nick's world changed that day he saw Adalind and childishly, he tried to hold on to his life and was unwilling to accept the change but that happened anyway. How different would the journey have been if he'd been more honest with those changes and their consequences?
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 03-19-2017
(03-19-2017, 09:59 PM)syscrash Wrote: The only thing that can prove someone or something wrong are facts. It is amazing how so many of the post sight speculations, assumptions, opinions, and beliefs as facts.
In the real world there are facts and I glad of that. G&K sometimes makes knowing the story facts hard to know.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - izzy - 03-19-2017
(03-19-2017, 09:11 PM)irukandji Wrote: Very interesting article. I have seen this kind of thing arising more and more on Judge Judy. Usually the man who is not the biological father actually manages to get out of child support because he was fraudulently trapped into believing he was the child's biological father. The men on Judge Judy often completely severe ties with the child. I know that can be devastating but I completely understand their position. I think a man continuing to pretend to be the father and at the same time resenting the child support he must pay would eventually devastate the situation.
I'll say it this way. I think the sample is biased. It take s a certain type of person to bring that situation to national attention. I think it first says, I am an anal orifice, if you humiliate a child that way.
And while I can understand their emotional state but not their position. , part of being a man is acting like one. I would have to question how loving of father these men were in the first place if their affection for a child can be turned off like a light switch.
(03-19-2017, 09:11 PM)irukandji Wrote: In at least one of the cases on Judge Judy, the real father came back into the picture, so there were some unusual circumstances.
I would wonder if it was news to him or he always knew.
(03-19-2017, 09:11 PM)irukandji Wrote: Kelly is very young to so the impact on him would not be devastating. But how do you think Nick would react he found out he wasn't Kelly's father? How do you think Adalind might react?
re your comment about Kelly, I am not so sure this true. Children bond to scents, human chemistry etc. I think children have amazing coping skills but when I compare those that were raised in what I consider idyllic circumstances to those who were not, the difference is apparent to me. I know people feel compelled to come forward with this or that study, but I beg to differ based on my own observations and a lifetime of experience.
As for Nick, I like to think, one, he already has his doubts, two he doesn't care,though he has a strong preference. I like to think, for all the tw*t he is, he is willing to man it up for the sake of a child. I think he would angrily confront Adalind and hopefully law down the law to her. Adalind would be terrified he would behead her or attempt to (she might be able to take him if she wanted - I mean how hard can that be. Flash a little ti* and in that moment take him out).
But I think she is smart enough, coy enough, and seductive enough to immediately and instinctively put Kelly in his arms and ask if he really can walk away from that and state Kelly deserves a father.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 03-20-2017
(03-19-2017, 11:08 PM)izzy Wrote: But I think she is smart enough, coy enough, and seductive enough to immediately and instinctively put Kelly in his arms and ask if he really can walk away from that and state Kelly deserves a father.
If Nick isn't the father the father would be
1) Sean
2) Supernatural being
3) Adalind is not the mother too
IMO no women would want to live with Nick to just have him as father including Adalind. Nick may want them to stay. Sean would want custody of Kelly in case one. Otherwise Adalind would have search for the real father and/or mother.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Grimmbiest11 - 03-20-2017
(03-19-2017, 04:52 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: A lot has to do with how people present their points. It's one thing to say, "I don't like the way they wrote this," or "suppose it turned out that..." That's the opening for a spirited discussion. But "I don't believe it's Nick's baby because Adalind is a lying, round-heeled slut," is just waving a big red flag that says, "I am a stubborn fanboy/girl who refuses to accept anythng that doesn't match up with what I wanted to see."
I wanted to RT this then I forgot this ain't twitter
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - rpmaluki - 03-20-2017
(03-19-2017, 04:52 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: A lot has to do with how people present their points. It's one thing to say, "I don't like the way they wrote this," or "suppose it turned out that..." That's the opening for a spirited discussion. But "I don't believe it's Nick's baby because Adalind is a lying, round-heeled slut," is just waving a big red flag that says, "I am a stubborn fanboy/girl who refuses to accept anythng that doesn't match up with what I wanted to see."Some discussions on the board have been so literal that I have purposefully avoided them until we can actually talk about what did happen on the show or actually frame the discussions as a hypothesis and not present certain points as facts when the show absolutely contradicts such points.
I'm at the point where I can't even tell when people are being sarcastic or literal and that's frustrating.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Grimmbiest11 - 03-20-2017
(03-19-2017, 03:32 PM)izzy Wrote:(03-19-2017, 09:14 AM)Grimmbiest11 Wrote: Lol you guys are being absurd, the writers came on record saying Kelly is Nick's kid. They wrote Claire's pregnancy in the series and decided to make it Nick's for the added drama. I get the need to deliberate over stuff in the show but some of it ends up being ridiculous just for the sake of fitting your own narratives.
LOL, I really think you and many are missing the point. Some of us may enjoy the show at various levels, but some of us also believe the writing and scripting leave more than a little to be desired. So for some, we simply enjoy debating what the show would be in reality, or other plausible or even superior plot lines that could have been developed.
That is what social media is for. From my vantage it makes little sense to discuss the show as is, it is all just there, just rewatch it. But exploring other options, potential motivation you learn about other people, how they view the world, and thus grow as a person. I know I have learned so much from JellyFish and Robyn (among others) simply because they are women and I am a man. Adriano has stretched my scope of vision too. And most of it has not a darn thing to do with Grimm other then they show brought us together to express our thoughts and views of he world.
And something you and others may not be aware of, there are several spin off, private forums that serve as adjuncts to this forum. People start their own discussion groups so they feel comfortable discussing things at a more substantiative level without the usual suspects griping about what does that have to do with some aspect of the show.
So what you see here is only the tip of the iceberg. That is what social media does, you get a chance in a forum like this to express yourself and oft like minded people will reach out to you and you will the find camaraderie in a more intimate forum or private messaging. But none of that would be possible if all you did is discuss the show in the context of the script of the writers, because they scripts do not imitate real life closely enough to allow personality to emerge in discussion. It is too narrow a scope to allow for substantive free expression.
To be clear I would rather go back and forth with my Grimm forum buddies than actually watch a minute of Grimm. One had the potential to elevate me as person, the other is entertainment.
I get all that Izzy, I was merely saying to dispute the facts presented by the writers on record is ridiculous. It's the vague stuff open to different interpretation that we can debate on. But when something is presented as a fact, like Kelly's paternity then someone comes and says Kelly is not Nick's kid it's plain ridiculous.
I get the need to flex the intellectual muscles but this paternity issue isn't something you can argue circles around. Kelly is Nick's kid, it is what it is.
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - MarylikesGrimm - 03-20-2017
(03-19-2017, 11:08 PM)izzy Wrote: But I think she is smart enough, coy enough, and seductive enough to immediately and instinctively put Kelly in his arms and ask if he really can walk away from that and state Kelly deserves a father.
IMO part of the reason so many women are not marrying and is growing is the view that women are using men in relationship. What you suggesting based on your article is not the normal. Low income women often do not want to deal with any fathers and while high/middle people have paternity suits which in most states, in 2017, is based on a DNA test.
What if Nick is the father and that is why Kelly is bad wesen? How would Juliette/Eve feel? How would Adalind feel?
RE: Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve - Tara - 03-20-2017
I hate that topic. Nick and Adalind. She raped him and now a few want the two together as Nadalind? That is stupid.
Why should Baby Kelly be a bad wesen?