(02-04-2016, 10:16 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Fallout,
Thanks for your comments. I'll just add to them:

Quote:1 the proposal

Nick proposed to her before she went in a coma not after and during that time she knew nick was hiding something from her and I can only assume they never did that before and she was right so she made a (smart) decision not to rush into something that affects her life blindly until nick was ready. This is about her life as much as it is about nick rushing into marriage knowing nick is being dishonest about being a grimm and as viewers knowing what a grimm is would have been foolish regardless of nicks feelings

The proposal was in 1.16. Juliette's refusal was:

Quote:N: Okay, look, I know that this weekend didn't turn out the way I planned. And, uh, I think the thing of it is, you kind of have to make your own perfect moments. So Juliette, will you be my wife?
J: I can't. I love you so much. And I really, really want to marry you someday. But I can't right now.
N: Because of what? I'm a cop? Is that ...
J: It's not because of your job. It's you. I feel like you've been keeping things from me. You've been so closed off. I know how hard Aunt Marie's death was for you. But until you can let me back in again I can't say yes.

So what happens when Nick "lets {her} back in?" Nothing.
You claim Nick was dishonest. He was protecting her from the shock most humans experience upon exposure to Wesen. Both Hank and Wu were more than just shocked. When he took her to the trailer, she did not believe him, began to cry and told him he needed help. IMO, Nick was justified in "protecting" her. Her reason to spurn him was bogus. If anyone was "dishonest" it was Juliette.
Your second point:

Quote:2 the love curse was adalinds doing and she did it to get back at nick ( see what I mean). She bearlly had controle of her emotions same with renard and they tried to fight it. When Juliette lost her memories nick was a stranger to her and she didn't know why and nick did but he couldn't tell her then after taking the cure for the obsession she kept seeing images of nick where ever she went and it sacred her but then she got her memories back ( by herself) and she knew she was wrong and she accepted him and his grimm world

You seem to be saying Nick knew why she lost her memories of him. Can you explain what he knew and why he didn't provide that information to Juliette? Nick let her stay in his house and even moved out so Juliette could regain her memories. The NBC recap of 2.03 states:

Quote:A new day for Nick brings another trip to the hospital to check in on his girlfriend, Juliette. After waking up from a coma, Juliette can't seem to remember Nick. In hopes of bringing back her memory, Nick brings his computer, which has dozens of photos showing off their relationship. Unfortunately, Juliette only knows Nick as the police officer who took her to the hospital, not the Nick who has been her boyfriend for several years. Frustrated and confused, Nick asks Dr. Saliman what he can do to help Juliette. The doctor simply advises Nick to be patient and wait for more test results to come in.

IMO, Nick showed compassion and tried to help Juliette. She was not "by herself."
The "love curse" drove wedges of mistrust between Nick and Juliette, and Nick and Renard. Note that Nick risked "side effects" of the pure of heart potion to cure Juliette. What if it backfired as severely as the re-grimm potion did on Juliette? You also say "they (J & R) tried to fight it" and I agree, but Juliette was a good marksman and in the most violent hate sex scene, she takes Renard's gun and fires it several times. At close range, why didn't she blow his zauberbiest brains out? He did break into the house and such an intruder is fair game for self defense.
New Guy

(02-04-2016, 01:20 PM)crossbar Wrote: I hate to say it, because I liked the character of Juliette. But, I need to be honest with myself. Juliette and Nick didn't have very strong on screen chemistry.

I starting to believe that maybe it would have been best to have Juliette killed off completely.

(02-04-2016, 12:15 PM)Fallout merc Wrote:

(02-04-2016, 10:16 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Fallout,
Thanks for your comments. I'll just add to them:

Quote:1 the proposal

Nick proposed to her before she went in a coma not after and during that time she knew nick was hiding something from her and I can only assume they never did that before and she was right so she made a (smart) decision not to rush into something that affects her life blindly until nick was ready. This is about her life as much as it is about nick rushing into marriage knowing nick is being dishonest about being a grimm and as viewers knowing what a grimm is would have been foolish regardless of nicks feelings

The proposal was in 1.16. Juliette's refusal was:

Quote:N: Okay, look, I know that this weekend didn't turn out the way I planned. And, uh, I think the thing of it is, you kind of have to make your own perfect moments. So Juliette, will you be my wife?
J: I can't. I love you so much. And I really, really want to marry you someday. But I can't right now.
N: Because of what? I'm a cop? Is that ...
J: It's not because of your job. It's you. I feel like you've been keeping things from me. You've been so closed off. I know how hard Aunt Marie's death was for you. But until you can let me back in again I can't say yes.

So what happens when Nick "lets {her} back in?" Nothing.
You claim Nick was dishonest. He was protecting her from the shock most humans experience upon exposure to Wesen. Both Hank and Wu were more than just shocked. When he took her to the trailer, she did not believe him, began to cry and told him he needed help. IMO, Nick was justified in "protecting" her. Her reason to spurn him was bogus. If anyone was "dishonest" it was Juliette.
Your second point:

Quote:2 the love curse was adalinds doing and she did it to get back at nick ( see what I mean). She bearlly had controle of her emotions same with renard and they tried to fight it. When Juliette lost her memories nick was a stranger to her and she didn't know why and nick did but he couldn't tell her then after taking the cure for the obsession she kept seeing images of nick where ever she went and it sacred her but then she got her memories back ( by herself) and she knew she was wrong and she accepted him and his grimm world

You seem to be saying Nick knew why she lost her memories of him. Can you explain what he knew and why he didn't provide that information to Juliette? Nick let her stay in his house and even moved out so Juliette could regain her memories. The NBC recap of 2.03 states:

Quote:A new day for Nick brings another trip to the hospital to check in on his girlfriend, Juliette. After waking up from a coma, Juliette can't seem to remember Nick. In hopes of bringing back her memory, Nick brings his computer, which has dozens of photos showing off their relationship. Unfortunately, Juliette only knows Nick as the police officer who took her to the hospital, not the Nick who has been her boyfriend for several years. Frustrated and confused, Nick asks Dr. Saliman what he can do to help Juliette. The doctor simply advises Nick to be patient and wait for more test results to come in.

IMO, Nick showed compassion and tried to help Juliette. She was not "by herself."
The "love curse" drove wedges of mistrust between Nick and Juliette, and Nick and Renard. Note that Nick risked "side effects" of the pure of heart potion to cure Juliette. What if it backfired as severely as the re-grimm potion did on Juliette? You also say "they (J & R) tried to fight it" and I agree, but Juliette was a good marksman and in the most violent hate sex scene, she takes Renard's gun and fires it several times. At close range, why didn't she blow his zauberbiest brains out? He did break into the house and such an intruder is fair game for self defense.
New Guy

How was her reason bogus like I said as far as we know they held no secrets from each other now she notices nick is hiding somthing from her and she's right. even if nick had a good reason not to tell her because he wasn't ready to confind in her she probrobly felt nick didn't trust her and while I may not be married trust is important in a relationship.

Now about hank and wu the diffrence between them and Juliette is both hank and wu saw their first wesen and vog before nick could tell them the truth and during that time they thought they were crazy and as a result they almost quit their jobs. Wu pretty much called nick out on keeping him in the dark while he knew the truth the whole time despite his good intentions nick almost lost his freinds by keeping things from them.

Now back Juliette unlike wu and hank nick tried to tel her the truth before she ever saw a wesen she didn't believe him and why should she ? Who would ever believe that there are monsters disguised as normal everyday people without any proof that's why both hank and wu thought they had gone crazy wesen defy normal logic. Her reaction to nicks secret was natural anyone would have reacted the same way and again he could not prove he was telling the truth at the time.

Sure maybe that's not fair but it's not her fault for reacting in a way anyone else in her shoes would have reacted.

(02-04-2016, 01:20 PM)crossbar Wrote: I hate to say it, because I liked the character of Juliette. But, I need to be honest with myself. Juliette and Nick didn't have very strong on screen chemistry.

I starting to believe that maybe it would have been best to have Juliette killed off completely.

(02-03-2016, 02:00 PM)irukandji Wrote: So here's my question. Is it easier to hate Juliette because she doesn't have a background like the other characters?

(02-04-2016, 06:17 PM)Saranghaeyo Oppa Wrote: I don't hate Juliette at all but she is a character that didn't belong in Nick's world

(02-03-2016, 12:22 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hello Forum,
First, thank you Nadalind1987 for starting this thread, Adalind vs. Juliette/Eve. The show is called Grimm and the lead character is Nick Burkhardt. I note you refer to Bitsie Tulloch's character as Juliette/Eve. IMO, there is only one persona which is Juliette/Hexenette/FankenEve. We discuss her character ad nauseam because Juliette (pre hexen - human), Hexenette (post hexen - living) and FrankenEve (post hexen robotic thing - dead).
You made a couple of points that continue to be debated:

Quote:Nick has turned away from Juliette in disgust...
Juliette laughed into Nick's face when he told her that he loves her...

There were many trials that came upon Juliette. Although she did not seek these trials she is responsible for her reaction.
In the flashbacks of Nick and Juliette they expressed their love and moved in together. I the pilot episode 1.01, Nick is buying an engagement ring. Nick knows nothing about Wesen and Grimms. Then the action begins. Nick cannot explain what he does not know but has to deal with life threatening issues.
1. Nick proposes. Juliette spurns him. That was her choice.
2. Adalind does the cat scratch thing. Juliette loses all memory of Nick. Renard and Elizabeth do the kiss cure. Juliette returns to the house she shares with Nick and treats him like dirt. Her Choice.
3. Then she goes hate sex with Renard. Again, her choice.
4. Adalind steal Nick's Grimm powers. Nick and Juliette decide to do the potion/spell to re-Grimm. Again, her choice.
5. Now to your first point. The hexen side effect grows stronger. Juliette does not say anything to Nick, she simply Woges into a hideous corpse faced monster and demands a kiss. Again, her choice.

Kiss her? Most Grimms would decapitate her immediately! She seems to take morbid pleasure in hurting Nick.
6. Your second point about Juliette laughs at Nick who continues to love her in spite of all she has made him endure. I have always questioned her sincerity. At this point, clearly she has no love in her.
7. Juliette continues down a path of hatred, debauchery and violence. This culminates in the death of Kelly Burkhardt.
Season 5 ends at the climax of the plot with a lot of violence and death. Meisner kills the villain King Fredrick. Nick comes home to mourn his Mother. Juliette shows up, admits to her betrayal of Kelly, shows no remorse and taunts Nick to kill her. Nick cannot kill the love of his life so she launches into a violent attack on him with intent to rip off his head, but Trubel stops her. Juliette dies in Nick's arms. At her last breath she gasps "Nick."

Here is a clip the touches upon many of these plot points:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sw9u7bAddw
NBC went to some expense to tease a proper end to Juliette, including filming her "funeral" and deleting Bitsie from the show credits.
Yet she is back again as the wooden, robotic, emotionless FrankenEve. The writers have taken the most despised character, jacked up her power above all other characters on the show and given her the role of savior of all humanity. At least they seem to realize how Nick should feel about her. He says "I need to bury her One way or another." I agree with Nick. We endured "Eve of Destruction." It is time to "Entomb Eve."
New Guy