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+--- Thread: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm (/Thread-Rate-the-actors-and-actresses-of-Grimm)
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - New Guy - 10-24-2020
I found this old bookmark and clicked on it. I remember Grimm. The monsters were entertaining. Many of the plot threads took twists that had no logic. Overall, I did enjoy Grimm and had some fun discussions here.
Best wishes to all!
New Guy
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - N_grimm - 10-24-2020
(10-22-2020, 05:29 PM)irukandji Wrote:I am not sure why “I'm saying” are supposed to clarify anything. Of course, you are the one saying it, no one else has posted on this thread since 2017. But you made a statement that she was not convincing, and went on to discuss why, throwing a baby and lack of “acting chops” on the table. You know perfectly well that I’m not the only one who think Claire Coffee showed great acting skills. I’m not going to dig up old posts or other sources.(10-22-2020, 01:32 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(10-21-2020, 03:42 PM)irukandji Wrote: The character should believe that she is capable to making such a personal journey. I'm saying that Claire's acting was unconvincing in that department.You forgot to add two important words: unconvincing “to me” (i.e. to you). Many others, including myself, found her acting in that department very convincing.
You apparently did not read my post that well: I'm saying that Claire's acting was unconvincing in that department.
Also, I would recommend you take some of the advice you give out so freely:
Many others, including myself, found her acting in that department very convincing.
You can only speak for yourself, and not for MANY OTHERS.
I’m not giving advice any more than you are lecturing others in how not to post.
But to get back to the issue at hand:
When Adalind was a villainess, manipulating others, she had facial expressions that told the viewers that she had ulterior motive. When she looked at Nick during season 5 and 6, she had an expression of honesty and love. When you claim it was “easy to see her march right back to evil without missing a beat”, you ignore that Adalind NEVER had the sly smile on her face that used to be her villainess trademark. How was Adalind’s change suppose to “come from within” anyway? Given the time she had on screen between wesen of the week plots, what did you expect? She talked a lot about wanting to change and even gave the reasons. You wanted more flashbacks of her four plots against Nick, combined with crying? That would be a complete waste of time.
You mentioned earlier in this tread that you watched Gotham. There you had Barbara Kean giving birth to James Gordons kid after a one-night stand at the precinct, before suddenly deciding she could not be evil anymore. Adalind could not turn back because of Nick and her two children.
Juliette and Renard turned evil in a flash. All Rachel had to do was to show Renard an election banner. I can’t remember Sasha did anything to convince that his turn to the dark side came “from within”. I’m not sure if he "doesn't have the acting chops to attempt what appears to be a difficult range for" him, or he just spent to much time cuddling with his dog….No, seriously, all the actors in Grimm did a fantastic job. It was the characters and the chemistry between them that made Grimm stand out in a positive way. Claire and Sasha are good actors. David grew as an actor and excelled in the final. Even Bitsie did ok when she was given the opportunity to play evil.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - irukandji - 10-24-2020
Quote:N_Ggrimm wrote: You know perfectly well that I’m not the only one who think Claire Coffee showed great acting skills. I’m not going to dig up old posts or other sources.
I'll post something then. I recall quite a few posters stating that Adalind was not a villainess, but instead Renard's pawn and abused by Catherine. That doesn't sound like many thinking Claire showed great acting skills. Instead it seems they're trying to excuse her performance by calling her something entirely different that the character she portrayed.
Quote:N_Grimm wrote:
When you claim it was “easy to see her march right back to evil without missing a beat”, you ignore that Adalind NEVER had the sly smile on her face that used to be her villainess trademark. How was Adalind’s change suppose to “come from within” anyway? Given the time she had on screen between wesen of the week plots, what did you expect? She talked a lot about wanting to change and even gave the reasons. You wanted more flashbacks of her four plots against Nick, combined with crying? That would be a complete waste of time.
Hey, I get it. You consider Coffee a great actress. But I (and please be aware that unlike you, I am not speaking for others) do not. I think she made a great villain, but I also consider that this is Grimm and the actors involved in this are not A list. If anything, most of them are just okay. Coffee just didn't handle the transition from villain to good girl well in my opinion. She did everything you said, talked about wanting to change, cried, took her shirt off and told Nick she loved him, etc., etc., etc. But in my opinion (again just me here), I found her unconvincing.
Beside that, I gave her some leeway. It could have been the script, which was in some cases crappy, or it could have been that Coffee just wanted to dote more on her son than work on her acting chops. After all, by the time she gets the passage into good characterdom, the series is already showing poor ratings and is on the downslide.
Quote:N_Grimm wrote:
You mentioned earlier in this tread that you watched Gotham. There you had Barbara Kean giving birth to James Gordons kid after a one-night stand at the precinct, before suddenly deciding she could not be evil anymore.
I only watched one season of it. I did say above that it did not make an impact on me.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - N_grimm - 10-24-2020
(10-24-2020, 04:59 PM)irukandji Wrote:Adalind was manipulated by Renard and Catherine, which only substantiates the credibility of her change.Quote:N_Ggrimm wrote: You know perfectly well that I’m not the only one who think Claire Coffee showed great acting skills. I’m not going to dig up old posts or other sources.
I'll post something then. I recall quite a few posters stating that Adalind was not a villainess, but instead Renard's pawn and abused by Catherine. That doesn't sound like many thinking Claire showed great acting skills. Instead it seems they're trying to excuse her performance by calling her something entirely different that the character she portrayed.
Quote:N_Grimm wrote:
When you claim it was “easy to see her march right back to evil without missing a beat”, you ignore that Adalind NEVER had the sly smile on her face that used to be her villainess trademark. How was Adalind’s change suppose to “come from within” anyway? Given the time she had on screen between wesen of the week plots, what did you expect? She talked a lot about wanting to change and even gave the reasons. You wanted more flashbacks of her four plots against Nick, combined with crying? That would be a complete waste of time.
Hey, I get it. You consider Coffee a great actress. But I (and please be aware that unlike you, I am not speaking for others) do not. I think she made a great villain, but I also consider that this is Grimm and the actors involved in this are not A list. If anything, most of them are just okay. Coffee just didn't handle the transition from villain to good girl well in my opinion. She did everything you said, talked about wanting to change, cried, took her shirt off and told Nick she loved him, etc., etc., etc. But in my opinion (again just me here), I found her unconvincing.
Beside that, I gave her some leeway. It could have been the script, which was in some cases crappy, or it could have been that Coffee just wanted to dote more on her son than work on her acting chops. After all, by the time she gets the passage into good characterdom, the series is already showing poor ratings and is on the downslide.
Quote:N_Grimm wrote:
You mentioned earlier in this tread that you watched Gotham. There you had Barbara Kean giving birth to James Gordons kid after a one-night stand at the precinct, before suddenly deciding she could not be evil anymore.
I only watched one season of it. I did say above that it did not make an impact on me.
Next year will be the 10 years anniversary of the Pilot-episode. And here you are, complaining about unconvincing acting and sometimes crappy script. It seems like Grimm made quite an impact on you. My guess it that you liked the show much more than you are willing to admit...
Anyway, thanks for the reply.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - irukandji - 10-24-2020
Quote:N_Grimm wrote:
Adalind was manipulated by Renard and Catherine, which only substantiates the credibility of her change.
Next year will be the 10 years anniversary of the Pilot-episode. And here you are, complaining about unconvincing acting and sometimes crappy script. It seems like Grimm made quite an impact on you. My guess it that you liked the show much more than you are willing to admit...
Anyway, thanks for the reply.
Funny thing about the character of Adalind. She never once claims to have been manipulated by either Renard or Catherine, yet fans continue to insist that she was a pawn.
Yet, when Adalind confesses actually confesses to being manipulated by her hexenbiest, not one fan ever remarks on the contradiction.
In any case, reducing the villainess to a mere pawn seems to reduce her acting ability greatly. In my opinion, as always.
In any case, I assume by your remarks that you're through with the discussion. That said, it was nice sparring with you.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - rpmaluki - 10-24-2020
Being reduced to being a pawn doesn't reduce one's acting abilities. An example of this is Sebastian Stan in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. He was both a villain that was later revealed to being a pawn by the actual villain. Later, in another movie, he admits to his actions as the WS but also acknowledges that he was used by others to commit murderous acts.
Claire Coffee did well with her character, showing great range, whether trying to appease her mother and Renard (overstating her abilities), the extreme hurt she felt when she lost her abilities against Nick and losing Diana, her cunning abilities to play all sides for her selfish gain when going at it alone, to her change in attitude when trying to escape Europe with Diana, giving up aspirations to a bigger status and lastly accepting/wanting a humble life with a grimm and her two children. She basically played four different characters and was convincing in all of them.
Sasha is perhaps the only other person who played his character differently from one season to the next as much as Claire, followed by Bitsie. The rest of the group pretty much stayed on neutral from day 1 to the last, in terms of their range. I'm not belittling their abilities just pointing out how they weren't given much outside of what we knew of them from their first episode all the way through to their last. Nick did however, show a little bit of growth, he went from a by the book cop that was a grimm to a grimm that was a cop, his approach to his cases shows how much he changed over the years.
As to Adalind not claiming to being manipulated by her mom and Renard, perhaps it's her way of acknowledging her complicity to her S1 actions. Catherine was her mother and like many children who have lived lives trying to make their parents happy, she was no different. While their relationship wasn't all sweet, Adalind still sought her mom's approval or what passed as such at the time. Renard being the hot Royal Prince sleeping with her was a no brainer also, as hexenbiests were known to seek power by attaching themselves to those with it. It was only after their rejection that Adalind's loyalty to them was shaken or broken altogether as we saw with Renard after he gave away their daughter.
Re: the Hexenbiest manipulation -
We saw what having a one did to Juliette when her anger got out of hand. She reveled in that power it gave her, shown through her violent and reckless behaviour towards Nick and his friends, including those murdered because of an alliance she made with the royals. The presences of a hexenbiest no doubt made certain behaviours acceptable/enjoyable that people would not normally do. At the end of the day, it's still up to the person whether they give in to those impulses. A S2 powerless Adalind is very different to a S5 powerless Adalind. The former was driven by the desperate need to fill the void her dead hexenbiest left while the latter not only was she free of it, but was happy to keep living without it as she enjoyed the simpler, fulfilled life without it. She had everything she wanted and thus was fearful of getting it back would do, she was afraid to lose what she'd gained without it. It only worked out for her because she made the decision to hold on to that new life, knowing Nick hadn't rejected her after he'd showed his willingness to accept the hexenbiest when he knew it was [back] permanent), something Juliette never understood during her whirlwind revenge bend. It's about choices, making the right ones even against what supposedly comes naturally. Monroe is a perfect example of that.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - irukandji - 10-24-2020
The difference here is that Adalind was never revealed to be a pawn.
Also, Adalind only gave the impression of trying to appease her mother. When confronted, she actually admitted that whatever she was supposed to be doing, she was in fact, doing it for Renard, and not for her mother.
By her own admission, Adalind is telling them both that she is not being manipulated by either one of them. She's doing what she wants of her own free will. It's what makes her so refreshing as an evil character.
It's obvious that fans don't want the character to be evil and thus, a villain. So, they instead turn it around into some fantasy where they label her as a pawn, abused by Catherine and Renard.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - rpmaluki - 10-25-2020
They didn't need to say it for it to be true, viewers, at least some of us gathered just as much, when Renard kept giving her instructions to attack those closest to Nick in order to force him to reveal/hand over the prized key.
The same goes with Catherine, Catherine owed a debt and Adalind was doing things for Renard to pay off that debt among other things, like seeing herself as a romantic partner to a royal prince. Adalind could have told her mother to go fish and sort her problems out herself but she didn't and to her shock, her mom turned her back on her and kicked her out of her life. She paid Renard back but not her mother, despite being angry over the abandonment.
S5, S6 she showed a keen interest to making sure her hexenbiest didn't rule over her. I think this was more like the biest taking advantage of her baser needs/wants
and negative emotions and making her act out by satiating even the most vile of desires as we saw with Juliette. She almost tearfully acknowledged the possibility when speaking with Rosalee, as viewers, we saw it with Juliette, so her words/fears were proven true but the show regardless of what viewers may believe. Those feelings and desires are inherent to them, it's what exists within them, the point is to chose differently instead of giving in to those impulses. As people we do this everyday, just not to the level we saw with this show. Some people give in to those wrong desires and act out accordingly while others chose a better life instead. Having people believe in her and a greater desire to live right for herself, children and the man she loved was probably very helpful towards her goal to keep her hexenbiest in check. We also saw a little of her attempts to help her daughter do the same in the very little time given to that relationship.
Not everyone wants their favourite character to be a villain, some hated Juliette's destructive turn after four seasons of being a good person, others hated Renard's sudden about turn during S5 when they were used to his apparent "good" side. Why should some of Adalind's fans be any different? I for one loved her and her whole journey from a character I hated because of her actions to one I cared for because she turned her life around after plenty of failures.
That last statement of yours, is not fact based on what actually happened on the show. Being a pawn has nothing to do with being abused, at least not in this case. Adalind wasn't abused, i don't think anyone has said that. Adalind chose to do the things she did and suffered the consequences thereof. It doesn't make her less a pawn since she was still following orders, only exercising some autonomy in how she carried out those orders because she wanted to make an impression on Renard. According to the dictionary, a pawn means "an unimportant person, subservient to others' plan", this is very much the Adalind of S1 until they cast out as useless, nothing more than a pretty face because she was no longer a hexenbiest, proving they had very little regard for her outside of what they wanted, Nick's key. Only after that is her every plot about getting what SHE wants and not helping out her mother who was paying an old debt to Renard.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - irukandji - 10-25-2020
When you say the creative team didn’t need to state that Adalind was a pawn because some viewers gathered that from Renard’s actions toward Adalind, all that amounts to is your interpretation. There is absolutely nothing in any of that that that indicates in any way, shape or form that Adalind was some kind of pawn. She was never innocently duped into deception by Catherine and Renard. In point of fact, there was no deception. Catherine owed a debt to Renard. Adalind could settle the debt by obtaining the key for Renard. Adalind agreed. It’s as simple as that.
Complications arise when Adalind fails. Catherine yells and slaps her. Renard insults her and tells her she’s useless, an amateur. And so, rather than make it what it is, a failure, fans want to spin this into some kind of intrigue where Adalind was unwittingly manipulated by Catherine and Renard.
I’m not disagreeing with you when you say that being a pawn has nothing to do with being abused, but I never said that. What I am saying is that fans say she was a pawn, (and) abused by Catherine and Renard. I left out the word, ‘and’ to shorten the sentence. I know you’ve read other posts where, not only is it pointed out that there was abuse as Catherine administered the slap, but also left Adalind alone. I also know you’ve read posts where Renard’s abuse consisted of insulting her by calling her just another pretty girl and telling her she was useless. The implication there was is that Adalind was not only manipulated, she was also abused.
You ask the question, why should some of Adalind’s fans be any different for hating Adalind as a villain, and so, want her to be good? My answer is I don’t think they should be different. But I also expect them to be lenient enough to allow for differing opinions. In mine, I found Claire’s acting ability in that department to be less than convincing.
No one can deny that either of these two people have had some very complicated issues that have just become even more complicated. Instead the storyline seems to skip all of the important stepping stones for this to be a believable relationship. I know it’s fine for you, but for me, it wasn’t. The creative team went through a lot of stepping stones to build Adalind into the villain we saw her as for the first four seasons. Claire’s acting supporting that villainy, whether fans hated it or not.
Then, in four-five months, maybe not even that much, all of the sudden Adalind tells Nick she loves him and takes her shirt off to prove she’s willing to sleep with him. Instead of reciprocating, he simply plays the part of male pig and takes what’s offered. I don’t like Nick, so what he does is just par for the course. Adalind, on the other hand, is in a complicated situation that she initiated. She has supposedly changed. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Claire’s acting just didn’t stand up to that change.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - N_grimm - 10-25-2020
(10-25-2020, 12:30 PM)irukandji Wrote: Then, in four-five months, maybe not even that much, all of the sudden Adalind tells Nick she loves him and takes her shirt off to prove she’s willing to sleep with him. Instead of reciprocating, he simply plays the part of male pig and takes what’s offered. I don’t like Nick, so what he does is just par for the course. Adalind, on the other hand, is in a complicated situation that she initiated. She has supposedly changed. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Claire’s acting just didn’t stand up to that change.Funny, when Nick sleeps with a woman who loves him, the mother of his child, and starts a 20 years+ relationship with her, he is a “male pig ”. When Renard sleeps with a woman on the verge of mental breakdown (Juliette), who has previously said she is not interested in him, he does not get the tag “male pig ”. Instead, you have described him as “so charming”.