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+--- Thread: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm (/Thread-Rate-the-actors-and-actresses-of-Grimm)
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - New Guy - 11-30-2016
Hi Forum,
I agree with the critique Izzy made of Bitsie Tulloch's acting ability or lack thereof. The writers have given her the opportunity to be (per Syscrash post #20) five different versions of her character, Juliette. She comes across as wooden in each version. Her lack of passion and expression prevents her from convincing many viewers. Even when cast as a wooden "warrior" I cannot see any real motivation or burning desire to achieve the HW objectives. Perhaps the same could be said about the entire HW organization. What is their mission? Just kill all BC? Why? At least they have the claw mark for their symbol, and their motto is "Occultatum Libera." HW opposes BC, but it is a big secret as to why. None of them, Meisner, Chavez, or FrankeEve could clearly state HW's objective.
Perhaps G&K made a good choice to have a blah actress, play a blah character in a blah organization, blah, blah blah.
N G
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - irukandji - 11-30-2016
I can't remember what thread it was brought up in, but the theory was that David somehow finagled Bitsie into getting the supposed meaty part of Eve because Bitsie was an inadequate actress and recognized herself as such. I don't really see that at all, but then I don't consider the part of Eve as a major demotion for the actress. However, the part of Eve doesn't make sense in a lot of ways and that makes me wonder what really happened behind the scenes in seasons four and five.
MEM left with no notice and Claire was the reigning evil queen for over three years. Then in season four she's pregnant. What if she asked that her baby bump be deliberately written into the series in order to show her as the good mother? She's already been portrayed as a not so good mother when she sold her baby and magically changed it into evil kid Diana. Maybe she demanded more depth to Adalind by making her a good character, at least for a season.
It's been suggested that Claire was given time to recuperate from her pregnancy and that's why she stayed within the fome with not a lot of dialogue or activity at the beginning of season five. That doesn't come as the result of the producers being kindly people who recognize pregnancy and handling a newborn can be tiring. It generally comes from the actress demanding special time because she's had a baby.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - syscrash - 11-30-2016
I see the show creating Eve to compete with the other supernatural shows. You had Arrow, Flash, Jessica Jones, GOT had Danny and her dragons. There was Stichers, Limitless and others. Like Eve all these shows had characters showcasing their powers. So Grimm created a super biest.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - izzy - 11-30-2016
(11-29-2016, 09:00 AM)irukandji Wrote: I think this is probably my first post in this topic. I admit, I haven't given it much thought. It isn't as though Grimm is equivalent to a show like the Twilight Zone, where the viewer's intelligence is tested with each episode.
"We" currently watch Grimm and started Game of Thrones (we are on Season 2), House of Cards (we are also on Season 2) and Season 1 of Outlander this year.
That concludes our entertainment watching. But to your point, those series do not repeatedly insult their viewers intelligence. The writers of Grimm seem to delight in seeing how much B.S. the viewers will accept before they dump the series.
(11-29-2016, 09:00 AM)irukandji Wrote: Izzy, you judged Sasha as the best actor among the cast. In your opinion, he displays a wide range of talents and abilities. I don't have a hard time believing he's a captain in the PPD, but does that make him the best among the cast? I was thinking about the part he plays and really, what range is there to it? I mean, he's a sometimes good guy, sometimes bad guy. I don't see a lot of depth to his character.
Off the top of my head a few spring to mind (remember I have never watched a grimm episode twice, so the things I mention are the things that made an impression on me and are not comprehensive).
Range:
Sean the Royal - I believe he made a very believable regal/royal character when interacting with wesen who knew what he was. He took on a different persona and projected authority and command in a different way. There was a scene where he made some wesen bow before him...it was very powerful, he came across a royal and carried that to the screen very well.
Sean the villain, act I - During the first couple of seasons they were setting Renard up to be the big baddie of the series. He played the character perfectly in my estimation. There was an aura of mystery,not only due to the writing but the way he projected, an element of regalness, but an undercurrent not only of political power but physical power. More there was a sense of deadliness and heartlessness. A direct contrast to what is below when I mention the new Captain.
As Captain - As someone who knows a lot of LEOs I can say he does a very believable job - at first as an authoritarian boss, then the writers softened the character some and mad him more involved in caring. It really was a “new” Captain Renard, the villain focus was off him and he became a more supportive character. It was very apparent when discussing Sgt Wu, and the concern he expressed for Wu as an individual. It was a shift in character and I think Sasha carried it off very well. And it was a believable shift in terms of acting although very incongruent in terms of overall character and plotlines.
Renard as Jack-the-Ripper - that was a very different set of physical mannerisms, inflections, drama, etc, and Sash did it very well. It was a fun diversion and Sasha got to demonstrate a sort of odd comedic bend and had a different sort of timing and delivery.
Renard + Juliette - I thought the side of him with the Juliette romance thing, trying to control it, the kiss aftermath was interesting but another aspect and almost a different character emerged. Outside the ridiculousness to the plotline, I bought the Renard portrayal on all aspects.
Renard and Adalind baby making – that scene was raw and nasty and I bought it. So much for the controlled, gentleman projecting Renard.
Renard, the cowing – This version emerged with the Bonapart plotline. I interpreted it differently than others, but clearly Sash was projecting an unsure, nervous, demure, subservient, if not afraid Renard. He did it well and it was very believable.
I can contrast this with David G. who to me has been given several opportunities; I have only bought him in one role, as Nick the daddy. I never bought his grief role, his lover role, or most importantly him as Nick the cop. And that observation extends beyond his role in Grimm. On the other hand I think Claire Coffee has pulled off her persona shifts very well, in direct contrast with Bitsie Tulloch who has never convinced me in any role.
One more comment, it is not so much depth to the character as the actors ability to portray whatever emotion or aspect of the character they are given to work with that I am evaluating. In my view, you cannot penalize an actor for playing a character you do not like or not having depth, because that is scripting. What you can judge is how believable they make the portrayal without respect to the script.
The character actors have an easier time of it, they often play the same role in various series and you judge them a bit differently as they do not get the range of opportunities to show different persona too often. If they are lucky they get a chance to play a wider range of character once or twice in an entire series run. For example Frank McGrath of WagonTrain was the consummate character actor. But he did get one breakout episode (over 8 season and 272 episodes) in "Little Girl Lost" (see footnote #1). Character actors count themselves very lucky to get an opportunity like this once in a series. Currently the character actors are Monro, Bud, and Wu.
(11-29-2016, 09:00 AM)irukandji Wrote: You mentioned something very interesting about how being a father opens up deeper feelings in men. Sasha's character became a father in the series. Yet he really did nothing with it. He was a bastard child and fathered a child who is a bastard. Yet we have no idea how he feels about that aspect of his life. Even if he went into complete denial or owned up that he wasn't cut out to be a father, that would be something at least.
I should clarify, being a father dramatically impact SOME men, not all men. Some men take it as a life defining role and alter their own character as a result. It is not universal, but for some very, very profound.
I have to agree with your observations. I am sad that the scripts did not opened this aspect up for exploration. Given the amount of overt exposure the character has been given it would be nice to explore this type of theme. It is yet another wasted opportunity by the writers.
Kindest regards,
Izod
Footnote(s)
#1 You can find Little Girl Lost on YouTube. It is more than worth watching. An episode like this would ever be shown on TV today with its religious theme. This episode was real odd ball for Wagon Train, touching on the supernatural, religion, faith, and kindness. It is rather amazing.
reference:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0743018/
And in the spirit of the season, there are a couple of exceptional Christmas themed episodes of Have Gun Will Travel that are well worth a view.
The first is Be Not Forgetful of Strangers.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0597482/
It is stunning.
And another good view is The Hanging Cross.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0597608/
None of these shows would be produced today and more than the Peanuts classic A Charlie Brown Christmas would ever make it to the screen.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - irukandji - 11-30-2016
I was reading the who is Eve thread and something occurred to me that I thought might fit here.
There are so many people who believe Bitsie cannot act. I'm not pointing fingers here or even focusing on this forum. It's an across the internet kind of thing.
At the same time, there are so many people who cannot forgive Juliette for what she did; burning the trailer, attacking Monroe, trying to attack Adalind and her unborn child, betraying Kelly, even sleeping with Renard and Kenneth. And all of the other things she did, which includes stiffing Nick for the engagement ring when she refused to marry him.
If the Bitsie can't act, how then could she get people to get so riled up to the point that they cannot forgive her character?
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - izzy - 11-30-2016
(11-29-2016, 09:54 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Hornsby and Lee are great with dry humor and I believed them going crazy so they're good. They're probably a bit better than DG but not in the upper tier. I've always wondered what the show would be like if Hank were the Grimm and if it would be any different. I think Hornsby could have have succeeded in the role because I find that Nick and Hank aren't written as dissimilar as most partners on TV. I suspect that Monroe was originally supposed to be the guy who was different from Nick so there was no need to make Nick and Hank contrast in their personalities that much. Therefore, I think Hornsby could've comfortably stepped into that role.
I have to admit, I do not think Hornsby has been given much to work with. As I mentioned I never thought he was given enough range for me to critique his acting and i remain with that thought. I also concur about DG. He has been given a lot of opportunity and did little with it. Unless he is trying to portray Nick as having Asperger Syndrome. But i think it is the limitation of DG, he was not any better in 13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi. In the end Hornsby may have been a better choice as DG never scaled as a star.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - syscrash - 11-30-2016
Quote:I was reading the who is Eve thread and something occurred to me that I thought might fit here.
There are so many people who believe Bitsie cannot act. I'm not pointing fingers here or even focusing on this forum. It's an across the internet kind of thing.
At the same time, there are so many people who cannot forgive Juliette for what she did; burning the trailer, attacking Monroe, trying to attack Adalind and her unborn child, betraying Kelly, even sleeping with Renard and Kenneth. And all of the other things she did, which includes stiffing Nick for the engagement ring when she refused to marry him.
If the Bitsie can't act, how then could she get people to get so riled up to the point that they cannot forgive her character?
This is the question I have asked myself many times. For someone they say can not act. Bitsie creates more emotions then the other characters combined. You never hear they don't believe the character. It is always how much they don't like the character. The other thing I find funny is how people think it is easy to play the parts she does. As hard as Eve would to play. Bitsie makes it look so easy people think it take no talent.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - izzy - 11-30-2016
(11-30-2016, 10:55 PM)syscrash Wrote: You never hear they don't believe the character.
i don't believe any aspect of the character Bitisie has attempted to portray - period. I do not think she made a convincing Vet, a convincing girlfriend, a convincing scorned lover, or anything else. As I said, that is why I came up with the Juliette was Slumming when she met Nick theory. It was a direct result of Bitsie's inability to portray a woman in love with her man. I almost felt it had to be deliberate, in which case I would call it great acting. But subsequent interviews with the cast indicated no, they were supposedly in love with no mention of either of them being emotionally retarded.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - syscrash - 12-01-2016
Izzy for someone who says they do not believe Bitsie's character. You are always using the perception she creates to argue your objections to her actions. You do realize Bitsie is creating imaginary perceptions. Her character is not an imitation of life. She was not trying to create a smitten girlfriend who's life is complete once she has a husband and child. Adalind projects that perception all of a sudden she is now the better girl friend. You say she does not make a convincing vet. Yet in the office she performed as any vet I have ever seen. Out side the office several times see delivered her medical diagnosis accurately. even the hypothetical diagnosis where made to sound real.
You say scorned lover was not convincing. Then why DO you sight her as examples to defend her cruel treatment of Nick.
RE: Rate the actors and actresses of Grimm - izzy - 12-01-2016
(12-01-2016, 12:34 AM)syscrash Wrote: Izzy for someone who says they do not believe Bitsie's character. You are always using the perception she creates to argue your objections to her actions. You do realize Bitsie is creating imaginary perceptions. Her character is not an imitation of life. She was not trying to create a smitten girlfriend who's life is complete once she has a husband and child. Adalind projects that perception all of a sudden she is now the better girl friend. You say she does not make a convincing vet. Yet in the office she performed as any vet I have ever seen. Out side the office several times see delivered her medical diagnosis accurately. even the hypothetical diagnosis where made to sound real.
You say scorned lover was not convincing. Then why DO you sight her as examples to defend her cruel treatment of Nick.
You seem to have a strange obsession with trying to get everyone to agree with your perceptions.
I have rated the actors and actresses of Grimm, positive, negative and neutral. You seem oddly obsessed with the fact I am of the belief that Bitsie Tulloch sucks as an actress.
Like many Americans I grew up with television and movies. I am a Rockford files fan. I thought James Garner was an excellent actor. I did not care for his personal views but that does not keep from admiring his acting ability nor enjoying the various characters he has portrayed. Jim Rockford was one I liked. On the other hand I hated the character of Angel on that same series, but I also realized Stuart Margolini was a fantastic actor and carried off the character I despised to perfection.
The point is I am fully capable of separating my like and dislike for an actor at a personal level from their acting ability or my like or dislike for the characters they portray from their acting.
You on the other hand seem to have a a great deal of trouble accepting the fact that other people do not perceive things they way you do and spend a great deal of time criticizing other people's view points.
Look at what you wrote above. I stated she did not make a convincing Vet to me and your retort amounts to: well I think she does. You seem to be unable to accept that other people with some possible semblance of intelligence do not subscribe to your viewpoint.
Perhaps I missed the point in the thread where you actually rated the actors and actresses of Grimm, which is the topic of the thread, not criticizing those who do so.