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+--- Thread: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? (/Thread-How-will-the-return-of-Eve-Juliette-effect-ratings-going-forward)
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - Hexenadler - 12-19-2015
(12-15-2015, 11:13 PM)Jizam Wrote: I'm guessing initially we will see Nick trying to get through to Juliette. But am hoping that whenever the talked about big fight between them next ep happens, that that's the end of it. We already had them all try to fix her last season, and the rest of the gang said they are done trying to help her. And we already watched nick trying to get her back in season 2. So I'm hoping they accept and go forward with who she is now.
I just think that's bit of a dead-end for the character. Since the beginning of the show, Nick and Juliette have been repeatedly sold to us as being star-crossed, despite the writers' best efforts to tear them apart. It's like Peter Parker and Mary Kane Watson, in some ways: Marvel did almost everything it could to drive Mary away from Peter, but they were "locked" as a couple from day one.
Here's what I believe happened: The writers took the negative feedback about Juliette's character to heart, and decided to do something about it. Unfortunately, that something was "let's switch Juliette with Adalind." This idea blew up in their faces for a number of reasons, one of them being the decision to voluntarily ignore everything that occurred between Nick and Adalind up to that point. Then Juliette turned into an uberbitch, relationships were wrecked, the show went off the rails, and the rest, as they say, is history.
IMO, that's why the ratings took a big hit. They were trying to channel the style of similarly "dark" shows like GAME OF THRONES (which is evident in David Guintoli's interviews leading up to the season four finale), and it just did not work.
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - New Guy - 12-19-2015
Hi Forum,
I enjoy all the commentary and opinion about the should be supporting character Juliette, no Hexenette, no Eve. So who is (are) she (they)? Hexenadler makes a good point:
Quote:The writers took the negative feedback about Juliette's character to heart, and decided to do something about it. Unfortunately, that something was "let's switch Juliette with Adalind." This idea blew up in their faces for a number of reasons, one of them being the decision to voluntarily ignore everything that occurred between Nick and Adalind up to that point. Then Juliette turned into an uberbitch, relationships were wrecked, the show went off the rails, and the rest, as they say, is history.Jizam also makes a good point
Quote:We already had them all try to fix her last season, and the rest of the gang said they are done trying to help her. And we already watched nick trying to get her back in season 2. So I'm hoping they accept and go forward with who she is now.My wife introduced me to Grimm and I started to watch during the lost memory plot line. I thought Nick was a ghost and the show was about the girl who sees ghosts, but cannot understand why. I had to re-watch all the episodes to understand what the show was about. I decided to stay with it since the hero (Nick) could detect the bad guys (usually Wesen) and capture or kill them to save innocent lives. I enjoyed the various breeds of Wesen and the cool fight scenes. I liked Juliette OK prior to the cat scratch. After that ... as Hexenadler said it is history. Juliette's supporting role got moved to the lead role of a homicidal lunatic.
Grimm rescued itself in a high energy thriller of "Cry Havoc." Just as Nick is about to be mutilated by Hexenette, we hear "good bye Juliette" and Trubel puts an arrow in her right lung and another through her heart. Jubilation! Ding Dong, the witch is DEAD! The writers confirm the death in every interview.
Did the writers renege or flat out lie?
Juliette's loss of memory arc was a waste of air time. So this Eve thing has a memory, but this time has lost emotions. Pleeeeease! Spare us!
New Guy
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - speakeasy - 12-19-2015
Juliette has always been one of my favorites and I admire Bitsie's acting ability - she has an understated, but very competent style of performance, I think. No other character in the main cast of the show has been more hollowed-out than Juliette. No other actor has been given the acting challenges that Bitsie has and she came through with flying colors every time, imo.
Now here we are with another impossible twist to a main character who's undergone too many elaborate transitions already. I've said it before and I'll repeat it again - though I haven't done an actual count of the threads and posts on the Forum, I'd be confident to bet that the overwhelming number concern Juliette. That means something.
I don't like to say it, but I think the only thing that can be done with the Eve character after the big fight with the wesen uprising is over, is to kill her off - she's just too dangerous to become integrated back into society. She's been betrayed and used by Adalind over and over; even so, she placed herself at perilous risk for Nick because of her selfless acknowledgement that he was needed as a Grimm, and then she became a vicious monster as a result. Now, she's being reduced even further by being turned into an engineered weapon of war. That's alot of exploitation of what started out as a very nice girl.
Could be I'm missing something and there is a way forward for Eve, that would be nice. And I'm glad she's back for however long that turns out to be.
Of course, it'll up the ratings.
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - wfmyers1207 - 12-20-2015
@speakeasy. I don't think that the return of Bitsie Tulloch is going to affect the ratings that much. IMO the poor scheduling by NBC has had far more effect upon ratings than whether Tulloch is on the show or not. And also I think that having Truble gone for such a long time last season was a bad move. I understand the character is rather popular among younger fans.
To me the biggest frustration with the character of Juliette was Bitsie Tulloch's acting. In "Organ Grinder" we had the chance to see the character played well. Especially in the scene with the kids in the diner and just after with Nick. But, that was the exception and not the rule.
Through out the entire series run we would get a glimpses of a potentially fine performance and then *poof*! We're back to 'Juliette The Marionette'!
Very annoying. For myself, although I'm not a fan of the character, I don't consider it that big of a deal one way or the other. To me Juliette has always been something of a sidebar on the show and Eve probably will be as well.IMO the character of Truble has become far more important than Juliette ever was. It's no accident that when M. Mastrantonio decided to leave the show the very next episode Truble appears. They wanted another female Grimm to replace Kelly.
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - speakeasy - 12-20-2015
(12-20-2015, 11:44 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: @speakeasy. I don't think that the return of Bitsie Tulloch is going to affect the ratings that much. IMO the poor scheduling by NBC has had far more effect upon ratings than whether Tulloch is on the show or not. And also I think that having Truble gone for such a long time last season was a bad move. I understand the character is rather popular among younger fans.
To me the biggest frustration with the character of Juliette was Bitsie Tulloch's acting. In "Organ Grinder" we had the chance to see the character played well. Especially in the scene with the kids in the diner and just after with Nick. But, that was the exception and not the rule.
Through out the entire series run we would get a glimpses of a potentially fine performance and then *poof*! We're back to 'Juliette The Marionette'!
IMO the character of Truble has become far more important than Juliette ever was. It's no accident that when M. Mastrantonio decided to leave the show the very next episode Truble appears. They wanted another female Grimm to replace Kelly.
How would you rate Bitsie's performance from the time she began sensing the Hexenbiest effects until the end of last season? I thought it was unwaveringly spot-on.
I just happen to really like the character; ain't a thing I can do about it.
I have never thought her acting was wooden or marionette-like. I think she is a very competent actor, whose delivery is characterized by a certain subtlety, but not in an inappropriate or unemotional way.I do acknowledge that there is a big part of the show's fans who don't like her performances or her character. That's just the differences in people, I get that, - and probably really successful actors generate far more positive than negative reactions.
Trubel is a good addition to the show, I like her fine enough. But I still feel that Eve will definitely increase the ratings because she will do some outrageous things that will keep fans buzzing one way or the other; that's been the trend so far!
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - wfmyers1207 - 12-21-2015
Actually, I thought her work during the whole transformation into the 'hexenette from hell' story arc was her best in the entire series run. To bad she never showed that kind of passion before.
But all in all, IMO she is at best a fair actress and I don't expect much from this new character of Eve. Neither from her performance or the writing.
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - jsgrimm45 - 12-21-2015
IF any things helps the ratings will be Trubel, the Eve plot line does carry any great interest for me just my opinion. Trubel on the other hand can carry the action, add Nick you have power to change the ratings. IF NBC puts some ads on other networks. One other thing I would change in the previews for the next episode show only that episode not one that could weeks down the road.
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - New Guy - 12-21-2015
Hello Forum,
Note that Bitsie has a stunt person who doubles as the Woged Hexenette. The makeup crew and the double do a good job of emotional action-filled fighting.
Bitsie as Juliette was wooden. Perhaps the director(s) wanted her to fail to convince us. She showed little if any conviction.
So far, this Evil Eve thing has done nothing. In the photo, does she present animation? She just murdered a bunch of Black Claws. What emotion does she present?
![[Image: twist-grimm.png?w=620&h=420&crop=1]](https://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/twist-grimm.png?w=620&h=420&crop=1)
IMO, no animation and no emotion. Zero.
The dead Juliette would have provided an emotional funeral and closure for Nick to move on. This Eve thing is an insult to the fans that expect proper consequences to befall perpetrators of evil.
New Guy
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - syscrash - 12-21-2015
Eve after saving Nick showed no emotion, but then neither does Trubel nor Meisner show emotions after a fight. Neither of them take it personally. It is a job. Nick takes every kill personally. To Nick he will never be comfortable doing his job as a Grimm. If you read the interviews you will find of all the cast Bitsie and Jacquline do more of there own stunts, and really like it. For the character of Eve, Bitsie has been putting in some serious work to play this character. We will be seeing more badass Bitsie then her stunt double. From the interviews it looks like Bitsie is taking a page for Angelina jolie's play book. Following what Angelina did to prepare to do tomb raider. The aerial ballet was all Angelina, I exepect to she that same from Bitsie.
RE: How will the return of Eve/Juliette effect ratings going forward? - Nightschade - 12-21-2015
I actually do not think that Eve will improve the ratings, but I think it will be entirely the writer's fault, and not Bitsie's. And here's why:
In my opinion, the decline in the ratings was most likely due to a mix of terrible scheduling and terrible promotion from NBC and people disliking the way season 4 ended and disliking the way that season 5 was going. The issue the writers have, is that they created a HUGE divide with this whole Adalind/Juliette thing. And while some dissension between fans is good to keep up interest and encourage decision, there is a negative effect of too much.
Fans who were upset about Juliette's death and/or angry about Nick and Adalind's story line, may have stopped watching. And yes, some of them will likely start watching again because of Eve's return, but again due to NBC's terrible promotion, if they don't keep up with Grimm online, others may never return to watching it, and those are viewer numbers that will be gone.
Fans who were ecstatic about Juliette's death and/or enjoying the way Nick and Adalind's story line was going this season, may now actually be turned off by the return of Eve. I've actually seen several people on other forums online who are either considering not watching at all anymore, or watching a little to see what they do with Eve before dropping the show for good.
The issue the writers have is that their sloppy writing created these two camps with strongly opposing opinions, and now its very difficult for them to write a story that satisfies one camp without alienating the other. I think that's what they were trying to do with bringing Bitsie back as 'Eve' and not as Juliette, but they didn't account for the fact that many of the people that didn't like Juliette didn't like her for Bitsie's acting as much as the boring way that they wrote Juliette (Personally, I didn't like Bitsie's acting in the first couple of seasons, but I thought that she improved).
So the presence of Eve is going to piss off as many fans as it intrigues, which is not good for Grimm at all. Add that to NBC's continued terrible scheduling and promotion, and I actually (unfortunately) think that the ratings will slowly decline all season. Maybe there'll be a slight spike at the beginning, but I can't see any sort of upward trend. This is a show in its fifth season with very little buzz outside of it's already loyal fans, and so it will be much easier for it to lose viewers than to gain them.
Personally, I'm not excited about the Eve story line based on what I've read so far. I can't really see anywhere good that this character can go, but I'll try to withhold my judgement until I see the next couple of episodes. I've been with Grimm since the beginning, but I unfortunately think that this series is now on a downward spiral.