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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - Robyn - 05-01-2018
(05-01-2018, 03:08 PM)Henry of green Wrote: Robyn, Adalind was sent out to confront juliette and take her back to viktor for questoning after she pestered viktor to let her have a talk with Juliette. It wasn't the Royals idea to send Adalind after Juliette and Viktor only allowed her to go after the spy that was working for both sean and the Royals informed viktor the car Diania and kelly fled portland in was regestierd to Juliettes name. There was zero hint they were trying to trade Juliette for Diania that was never brougth up. Adalind didn't even know for sure Juliette knew Kelly's exact location so its highly doubtful she had any idea Juliette had told Kenneth anything at that point and she looked totally shocked when Nick told her the Royals had Diania in 4x22, she said in shock to Nick I thougth she was with your mother. Her reaction appeared a genuine reaction of shock to me. So while i once again agree Adalind knew Kenneth was planing on trying to turn Juliette to his side and getting Kelly's location off her I see abousluley nothing indicating she even remotely had any idea kenneth was luring Kelly to town using Juliette.So a trade wasn’t part of their plan? Did Viktor even have a plan of action other than questioning Juliette for information she may or may not have? Then what? No wonder the King replaced him with Kenneth. It sounds like Viktor and Adalind going to Portland in search of Diana was akin to the adventures of dumb and dumber.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 05-01-2018
(05-01-2018, 02:32 PM)Robyn Wrote: Wasn’t Adalind an active participant in the Royals’ plan to kidnap Juliette as trade for Diana? Kenneth’s only alteration once learning she was a Hexenbiest was to make Juliette an ally instead of a victim. Adalind might have initially believed Juliette wouldn’t betray Nick, but that was before their precinct confrontation. Considering the hostility between Nick & Juliette at the precinct and later learning Juliette wanted to remain a Hexenbiest, it should have been a quick conclusion for Adalind that Juliette might have already told Kenneth how to find Kelly and Diana.
Again, I don’t blame Adalind for not sharing information that might allow Kelly to keep Diana hidden. But in rethinking the situation, Nick not assuming Diana was the only reason the Royals or Adalind would return to Portland makes him rather daft. At the very least, had he informed his mother of what was happening in Portland, she probably wouldn’t have returned to Portland with Diana, and certainly wouldn’t have waltzed into a dark house with her.
(05-01-2018, 07:12 PM)Robyn Wrote: So a trade wasn’t part of their plan? Did Viktor even have a plan of action other than questioning Juliette for information she may or may not have? Then what? No wonder the King replaced him with Kenneth. It sounds like Viktor and Adalind going to Portland in search of Diana was akin to the adventures of dumb and dumber.
I agree with you on the dumb and dumber part. Adalind was sent by Viktor to grab Juliette as a hostage trade off for Diana or her whereabouts info, from Nick. That plan backfired when Adalind walks into another, more powerful Hex, Juliette. That plan failed.
The King replaced Viktor and his failed plan with Kenneth. Kenneth has no set plan. He is hoping to turn Juliette to his favor and see what info she could provide on Diana by turning her against Nick. Even Kenneth was shocked to see how far Juliette would go after she returns to Ken's hotel room. Adalind was long gone. Remember, Ken offering Juliette, Adalind's former bedroom.
This is when Ken and Juliette set out to get a message out to momma Kelly and hope to get a location of Diana whereabouts. Adalind was completely out of the picture to have an inkling on what Juliette was about to do.
Juliette went to bun down the trailer to guarantee, Nick was out of the house she had moved out so she could send the fatal email to Kelly. When Juliette comes back to the hotel even Ken was surprised on what she did with the trailer. As I recall, he looked at her ash stained hand and asked. Burning bridges are we? or something like that. This is when Juliette tells Ken, momma Kelly was coming back to Portland. After that was confirmed, they went on and plan to home invasion of Nick's neighbors which also shocked the Verat henchmen of her extent she would betray the Burkhardts.
Ken and Juliette were hoping for info on Diana but they hit a home run when their plan actually got Kelly to come back to help her son. You wanna debate all you want if this was their original plan or not.
There is no debate of the extent of the plan to Adalind knowledge base, since it was concocted way past the precinct scene or her Hotel scene with Ken. At this point,Adalind is hiding out at Bud's house or Monroe's, I forgot. What I did not forget is that Adalind had no clue on their plans that evolved for her to inform Nick of what was coming.
RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 11-02-2018
Hiya Kids, Hiya, Hiya,
No, Bitsie was not on the Andy's Gang show. She did land a gig as Lois Lane, and one other TV movie I've never heard of (We Love You, Sally Carmichael). Anyway, she has had work.
N G
RE: Eve/Juliette - FaceInTheCrowd - 11-03-2018
"Sally Carmichael" was an indy film. It probably would have gotten seen more if it had been a TV movie.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hexenadler - 06-19-2020
I'ts been almost three years, and I'm STILL not over what G&K ultimately did to Juliette. You have to stand back and study her arcs throughout season 4, 5 & 6 just to see how morally reprehensible it really is.
S4: Juliette turns into Hexenbiest. Juliette becomes extremely powerful. Power turns Juliette into an uberbitch. Juliette commits unforgivable crimes and has to be put down like a sick animal.
S5: Juliette is beaten up inside a cell by a creep who hides his blatant sadism behind a mask of practicality. Said beating results in Juliette becoming "Eve," a "stronger woman" who's in "full control" of her emotions, i.e. they won't run rampant to destroy everyone around her. Basically, it took a man to slap a leash on Juliette for her to become a good guy again. Juliette is absolved of all her crimes by adapting identity of Eve. Everybody is (ultimately) okay with this, including the writers working under G&K's reign of amoral incompetence.
S6: "Julieve" is mostly reduced to sniffing around a tunnel for most of the season until she goes on a detour with Nick, in which she blabs a monologue SUPPOSEDLY meant to resolve any lingering conflict, only to rip open old wounds by refusing to face accountability for her crimes for the umpteenth time.
As far as I'm concerned, the REAL continuity came to a halt at the end of TRIAL BY FIRE. The actual story unfolded elsewhere. We'll just never get to see it. Everything we saw on the television took place in an evil alternate timeline conceived by lazy, indifferent hacks who didn't care about the misery and trauma they were inflicting on characters whom the audience had the misfortune of liking.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 06-21-2020
(06-19-2020, 12:07 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: I'ts been almost three years, and I'm STILL not over what G&K ultimately did to Juliette. You have to stand back and study her arcs throughout season 4, 5 & 6 just to see how morally reprehensible it really is.
S4: Juliette turns into Hexenbiest. Juliette becomes extremely powerful. Power turns Juliette into an uberbitch. Juliette commits unforgivable crimes and has to be put down like a sick animal.
S5: Juliette is beaten up inside a cell by a creep who hides his blatant sadism behind a mask of practicality. Said beating results in Juliette becoming "Eve," a "stronger woman" who's in "full control" of her emotions, i.e. they won't run rampant to destroy everyone around her. Basically, it took a man to slap a leash on Juliette for her to become a good guy again. Juliette is absolved of all her crimes by adapting identity of Eve. Everybody is (ultimately) okay with this, including the writers working under G&K's reign of amoral incompetence.
S6: "Julieve" is mostly reduced to sniffing around a tunnel for most of the season until she goes on a detour with Nick, in which she blabs a monologue SUPPOSEDLY meant to resolve any lingering conflict, only to rip open old wounds by refusing to face accountability for her crimes for the umpteenth time.
As far as I'm concerned, the REAL continuity came to a halt at the end of TRIAL BY FIRE. The actual story unfolded elsewhere. We'll just never get to see it. Everything we saw on the television took place in an evil alternate timeline conceived by lazy, indifferent hacks who didn't care about the misery and trauma they were inflicting on characters whom the audience had the misfortune of liking.
Hi Hexenadler......Great post. Nice to see you here. I believe all of this was done for one reason and one reason only: The creative team did not know what to do with Adalind, and so in order to make her "fit", they created an alternative universe "Juliette". The old Juliette was killed off, leaving "Eve", who is absolved of all crimes having been "born again" according to Monster Meisner. The characters would be okay with this because their fearless leader, Nick, is okay with it. The thing I have thought about while reading all these innumerable posts about Juliette and the betrayal is that Juliette did not go unscathed in any of this. She lost her companion, her career, her friends, her happiness, and herself. She lost it all so that Adalind could take her place as the happy homemaker. And while all of them are okay with Juliette/Eve's lack of remorse, they are even more okay with Juliette/Eve losing everything in the process.
Would an apology to Nick have made any difference? I don't think Nick is capable of understanding the complex concept of forgiveness. You know, the series treats this "Nick getting his Grimm back" as some kind of reverent, time honored tradition and millions will perish if he doesn't take up the gauntlet. So Juliette's happiness with him as a true human is really pathetic by comparison. But here's the thing. Nick didn't take up the gauntlet because he believed in the time honored traditions of Grimm legacy. He took it up so Monroe and Rosalee could be happy, and he could be happy. So if he couldn't understand what would make Juliette happy, I don't think he would understand an apology from her. He just didn't understand Juliette.
And look at his life with Adalind. Nick doesn't have to worry about her asking intelligent questions or wanting a meaningful conversation with him. He doesn't have to worry about leaving the toilet seat up, sleeping in the garage that night, if dinner will be on the table, if little Kelly is being left alone with no one to care for him, or even if Adalind's coming to bed that night. In short, Nick doesn't have any worries with Adalind. He doesn't have to think or even be an adult around Adalind. No matter what he does, she'll still be in bed with him that night. What's not to like and why concern himself with Juliette/Eve's troubles?
Thanks for reminiscence.
RE: Eve/Juliette - N_grimm - 06-21-2020
(06-19-2020, 12:07 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: I'ts been almost three years, and I'm STILL not over what G&K ultimately did to Juliette. You have to stand back and study her arcs throughout season 4, 5 & 6 just to see how morally reprehensible it really is.I agree that Juliette turned evil and committed unforgivable crimes. The reasons behind her turn was not completely clear, but seemed to be triggered by Nick stepping outside to digest the shock after she woged in front of him, and that she was not allowed to kill his unborn son (or as she saw it, Adalind) at the precinct (destroying her own life in the process). I tend to think this had to do with Juliette handling the transformation badly and turning mentally unstable. But the seek for power did make Renard support ethnic cleansing, so it is possible that her new abilities completely clouded her judgment.
S4: Juliette turns into Hexenbiest. Juliette becomes extremely powerful. Power turns Juliette into an uberbitch. Juliette commits unforgivable crimes and has to be put down like a sick animal.
S5: Juliette is beaten up inside a cell by a creep who hides his blatant sadism behind a mask of practicality. Said beating results in Juliette becoming "Eve," a "stronger woman" who's in "full control" of her emotions, i.e. they won't run rampant to destroy everyone around her. Basically, it took a man to slap a leash on Juliette for her to become a good guy again. Juliette is absolved of all her crimes by adapting identity of Eve. Everybody is (ultimately) okay with this, including the writers working under G&K's reign of amoral incompetence.
S6: "Julieve" is mostly reduced to sniffing around a tunnel for most of the season until she goes on a detour with Nick, in which she blabs a monologue SUPPOSEDLY meant to resolve any lingering conflict, only to rip open old wounds by refusing to face accountability for her crimes for the umpteenth time.
As far as I'm concerned, the REAL continuity came to a halt at the end of TRIAL BY FIRE. The actual story unfolded elsewhere. We'll just never get to see it. Everything we saw on the television took place in an evil alternate timeline conceived by lazy, indifferent hacks who didn't care about the misery and trauma they were inflicting on characters whom the audience had the misfortune of liking.
We started seeing Eve turning more into Juliette at the end of season 5. When Adalind’s powers returned, Eve seemed convinced Adalind would turn on Nick, even saying she might not be completely in control (just like herself back in season 4). Then when Adalind was forced to temporarily stay with BC to get Diana, Eve kept asking if Nick blamed Adalind. She was probably hoping he did. Then, at the start of season 6, after being healed by the stick, we saw even more of the old Juliette - she asked Nick to be careful and searched for his feelings in the presence of the stick. And then of course we had the hotel scene, where she was the only person obsessed by somebody she used to love. Eve shouted to Adalind that she had stolen Nick and had the child that was supposed to be hers. She also admitted to Diana that a stomach hurt when she thought about Nick not being her boyfriend. She did regret betraying Nick, but also understood that there was no turning back.
After getting fired by HW (“only Grimms”), she had limited purpose and nowhere to go. She did serve as bait to get Nick to follow her to the other side, but then lost her powers and was forced to kill herself. It is true that she refused to accept responsibility for her crimes in her monologue, but Nick had sort of forgiven her. In “The Son Also Rises”,sitting by her bedside in the hospital, Nick reflects on his relationship with Juliette, from Marie’s warning to Kelly’s head in the box. The latter would always stay with him, but he consider her an important friend with a shared past. He only seemed annoyed every time she stepped too close to Adalind and Kelly. At the end, Eve seemed happy to see Nick with his new family. You could even say that Eve loved him enough to want the best for Nick even if that meant not being together. To move on, she needed to start over, that is why she kept telling herself, "I'm not Juliette anymore".
G&K created a show that I have enjoyed more than any other. I do not place tags like “morally reprehensible” to a fantasy-show that in based on a cop interacting with witches and werewolves. The characters all changed throughout the series - perhaps with the exceptions of Nick, Monroe and Rosalee. Grimm had some shocking twist and turns, but that made it all more interesting. No one is going to watch the show for moral guidance anyway and it’s not intended for kids.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 06-24-2020
(06-19-2020, 12:07 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: I'ts been almost three years, and I'm STILL not over what G&K ultimately did to Juliette. You have to stand back and study her arcs throughout season 4, 5 & 6 just to see how morally reprehensible it really is.WOW even after 3 years some of you Nick haters still haven't gotten over the fact that these fictional characters ended up the way they did. Did you ever contemplate if things were written as some of your postings on the fiction portion of this forum, we might have ended up with less seasons/episodes?
S4: Juliette turns into Hexenbiest. Juliette becomes extremely powerful. Power turns Juliette into an uberbitch. Juliette commits unforgivable crimes and has to be put down like a sick animal.
S5: Juliette is beaten up inside a cell by a creep who hides his blatant sadism behind a mask of practicality. Said beating results in Juliette becoming "Eve," a "stronger woman" who's in "full control" of her emotions, i.e. they won't run rampant to destroy everyone around her. Basically, it took a man to slap a leash on Juliette for her to become a good guy again. Juliette is absolved of all her crimes by adapting identity of Eve. Everybody is (ultimately) okay with this, including the writers working under G&K's reign of amoral incompetence.
S6: "Julieve" is mostly reduced to sniffing around a tunnel for most of the season until she goes on a detour with Nick, in which she blabs a monologue SUPPOSEDLY meant to resolve any lingering conflict, only to rip open old wounds by refusing to face accountability for her crimes for the umpteenth time.
As far as I'm concerned, the REAL continuity came to a halt at the end of TRIAL BY FIRE. The actual story unfolded elsewhere. We'll just never get to see it. Everything we saw on the television took place in an evil alternate timeline conceived by lazy, indifferent hacks who didn't care about the misery and trauma they were inflicting on characters whom the audience had the misfortune of liking.
In the end, in the real world, Nick and Juliette did hook up, got married, as David and Elizabeth, and became parents to a beautiful little girl, yet, you still unsatisfied. This looks as if there is more to this criticism then you seem to admit. I think your have an underlying motive for your disdain of the outcome of the series. Based on some of your fictional writings, your disdain has to be from you repulsing your heroin Juliette ending up alone instead of shaking up with your other hero, Sean Renard. I am sure the "peanut gallery", from the previous posting to N_grimm's posting, feels the same way.
I detect a slight prejudice in your criticism, due to, your heroin did not end up with the taller, wasp-y looking guy, instead of alone. Yet in the real world, Bitsey ended up with the shorter Latin looking ITALIAN GUY. Do i detect some well founded biased jealousy in your summations?
RE: Eve/Juliette - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-24-2020
My big grumble about seasons 5 and 6 is still the decision to reduce the conflict with the royals to a footnote and discard it for the BC plot arc. They had an evil global conspiracy of royals with wesen footsoldiers vs a resistance movement aching for the boost a grimm could have brought them that could have been the lead-in to an ultimate confrontation between Nick the grimm and a powerful hexenbiest adversary who knew all his secrets and all his allies, and threw it away for a scruffy band of terrorists with delusions of world conquest vs an equally scruffy secret government agency with delusions of intelligence and efficiency. Once they jumped that shark, every other bit of silliness that followed paled in comparison.
RE: Eve/Juliette - FaceInTheCrowd - 06-24-2020
(06-21-2020, 08:20 AM)irukandji Wrote: I believe all of this was done for one reason and one reason only: The creative team did not know what to do with Adalind
There were two reasons. One was that Claire Coffee was pregnant, and they didn't want to do an entire season of shooting around it. The other was that ratings were declining and someone had the not-so-brilliant idea that the numbers could be improved with a "ripped from the headlines" plot arc inspired by the real world ISIL terrorist movement.
Nick-Adalind didn't bother me as much as I initially expected it to, probably because it involved a substantial amount of mutual uncertainty and uneasiness between the characters before they ultimately ended up together.
What really irked me was they way they utterly wasted what was probably the closest thing the series ever got to having an uber-villain (hexenbiest Juliette).