(04-23-2018, 04:13 AM)irukandji Wrote: Did you notice that not once did Nick ever tell Juliette to her face that he was on her side, even when she accused him of choosing Adalind over her?

(04-23-2018, 12:00 PM)irukandji Wrote: My son is adult. I suspect from how old you are that your daughter is an adult as well. So in answer to your last question, I expect my so to be able to make his own decisions and not rely on my point of view. Apparently you can't help but butt in in your kid's life, is that it?

(04-23-2018, 12:39 PM)dicappatore Wrote: Here is how you insult others. In this case me, by putting words in my mouth or on my fingers typing these posts. I never asked you to butt in, Please re-read my post. However, I did ask you on how you expect your son to react to a similar situation. Your answer for him to be able to make his own decisions do not answer the question on how you expected him to react, behave.

Both my kids are grown and one is married. At this point I have done as good as a job as i could have and I hope I have given them a foundation set of values to direct them for the rest of their lives. If my son was in similar situation, I wouldn't dare to butt in, advise, if he asked for it, as he does on various matters. I would expect him to stand up for himself and write off someone in his life, similar in behavior, to Juliette.

Juliette made it specifically clear, she was done with Nick. Why are you expecting for him to take her side and not the side of his unborn child? if your son was in a similar situation, I am not asking for you to force or influence his decision in any way. My question still stands. What would you EXPECT him to do. Take the side of a woman that walked out of his life, laughed at his face and stopped communicating with him, at this point, for about a month, or more. Whom would you expect your son to favor, Adalind or Juliette.

Maybe in the real world we don't have girlfriends turning into Hexenbiests. I am sure there are relationships that have broken up yet continue to be in each other's lives.

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?

Quote:Juliette made it specifically clear, she was done with Nick.

(04-23-2018, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-23-2018, 12:39 PM)dicappatore Wrote: Here is how you insult others. In this case me, by putting words in my mouth or on my fingers typing these posts. I never asked you to butt in, Please re-read my post. However, I did ask you on how you expect your son to react to a similar situation. Your answer for him to be able to make his own decisions do not answer the question on how you expected him to react, behave.

Both my kids are grown and one is married. At this point I have done as good as a job as i could have and I hope I have given them a foundation set of values to direct them for the rest of their lives. If my son was in similar situation, I wouldn't dare to butt in, advise, if he asked for it, as he does on various matters. I would expect him to stand up for himself and write off someone in his life, similar in behavior, to Juliette.

Juliette made it specifically clear, she was done with Nick. Why are you expecting for him to take her side and not the side of his unborn child? if your son was in a similar situation, I am not asking for you to force or influence his decision in any way. My question still stands. What would you EXPECT him to do. Take the side of a woman that walked out of his life, laughed at his face and stopped communicating with him, at this point, for about a month, or more. Whom would you expect your son to favor, Adalind or Juliette.

Maybe in the real world we don't have girlfriends turning into Hexenbiests. I am sure there are relationships that have broken up yet continue to be in each other's lives.

And let me refresh your so called desire to have a mature conversation with this little tidbit:

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?

Um, I don't get the feeling you meant that as a compliment and since you don't generally converse maturely, then the only thing left is an insult. So please don't act like you're trying to be so mature when you open a post with a question like the above.

What difference does it make to Nick what Kelly expects? She wasn't around for over half of his life as it was. It's not her business and her expectations are a big fat zero where Nick is concerned.

Quote:Juliette made it specifically clear, she was done with Nick.

I know she made it clear she was done with Nick. But when does that suddenly account for hatred? Some couples have a little more going for them then just sex.

And since you're so keen on canon, I wonder why it is that you don't bring up Adalind's statement to Kenneth that Juliette would never betray Nick. For that matter, I wonder why you don't bring up Kenneth telling Juliette that she was loyal to "the Grimm even after what he'd done to her". I also wonder why you don't bring up that Juliette didn't argue with Kenneth and insist that loyalty to Nick was the furthest thing from her mind.

I know you'll never understand this, but it makes no sense that Nick wouldn't choose Juliette over Adalind during that scene. If, as you imply, Nick was trying to get Juliette back by patching things up, why all of the sudden throw all that in the garbage because Adalind comes waddling in to the precinct, claiming she's carrying his son?

All Juliette did at that point was walk out on Nick and sleep with Sean. That is something she's perfectly entitled to do. After all, Nick made it plain that he wasn't going to sleep with her and his "I love you" to her was less than heartfelt.

According to you, Nick was willing to forgive all of that because he was trying and trying and trying and trying to patch things up and get her back. She was there in the precinct. He could have easily patched things up. Yet he chose Adalind who'd done nothing but hurt him and those he loved.

I expect him to take Juliette's side because as so many here are so apt to point out, he loved Juliette and supposedly would go to hell and back for her, even if she laughed at him. I expect him to take Juliette's side because she was willing to become the final ingredient in the spell to give him back his grimm, despite side effects. I expect him to take Juliette's side because he always had her to come home to. I expect him to be there to help her. She didn't ask to become a hexenbiest and paid dearly for it.

Quote:And let me refresh your so called desire to have a mature conversation with this little tidbit:

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?

Quote:Um, I don't get the feeling you meant that as a compliment and since you don't generally converse maturely, then the only thing left is an insult. So please don't act like you're trying to be so mature when you open a post with a question like the above.

Quote:What difference does it make to Nick what Kelly expects? She wasn't around for over half of his life as it was. It's not her business and her expectations are a big fat zero where Nick is concerned.

Quote:I know she made it clear she was done with Nick. But when does that suddenly account for hatred? Some couples have a little more going for them then just sex.

Quote:And since you're so keen on canon, I wonder why it is that you don't bring up Adalind's statement to Kenneth that Juliette would never betray Nick. For that matter, I wonder why you don't bring up Kenneth telling Juliette that she was loyal to "the Grimm even after what he'd done to her". I also wonder why you don't bring up that Juliette didn't argue with Kenneth and insist that loyalty to Nick was the furthest thing from her mind.

Quote:I know you'll never understand this, but it makes no sense that Nick wouldn't choose Juliette over Adalind during that scene. If, as you imply, Nick was trying to get Juliette back by patching things up, why all of the sudden throw all that in the garbage because Adalind comes waddling in to the precinct, claiming she's carrying his son?

Quote:All Juliette did at that point was walk out on Nick and sleep with Sean. That is something she's perfectly entitled to do. After all, Nick made it plain that he wasn't going to sleep with her and his "I love you" to her was less than heartfelt.

Quote:According to you, Nick was willing to forgive all of that because he was trying and trying and trying and trying to patch things up and get her back. She was there in the precinct. He could have easily patched things up. Yet he chose Adalind who'd done nothing but hurt him and those he loved.

Quote:I expect him to take Juliette's side because as so many here are so apt to point out, he loved Juliette and supposedly would go to hell and back for her, even if she laughed at him. I expect him to take Juliette's side because she was willing to become the final ingredient in the spell to give him back his grimm, despite side effects. I expect him to take Juliette's side because he always had her to come home to. I expect him to be there to help her. She didn't ask to become a hexenbiest and paid dearly for it.

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother? For one minute put yourself in place of being Nicks mom, not Kelly or a Grimm. Just his plain mom, and you know what has happened in his life, just to name a few.

(04-24-2018, 04:30 AM)irukandji Wrote: Because this is such a long and drawn out paragraph with many questions, I'm going to take this one at a time:

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother? For one minute put yourself in place of being Nicks mom, not Kelly or a Grimm. Just his plain mom, and you know what has happened in his life, just to name a few.

Now before you go off accusing me yet again of "skewering things", consider your paragraph. I have no idea what the intent of this is because you don't explain why you feel a mother's expectations in this instance are paramount. You yourself have to agree that you are not known for detailed and thought provoking thoughts put into words. Instead you do quite the opposite. You load the post with a bunch of questions, then turn around and accuse others of not answering them.

When answers come and they don't suit you, you start bolding, calling names and doing your usual bullying so one of your other accomplices will chime in and acknowledge how useful calling names and insulting others can be. That's you in about 95% of your posts. Read them.

You call me out about my methods as you see them? Well, surprise, surprise, you're just as predictable. Strange for a person who says he was so involved in debates.

I answered the question based on the small bit of information I had. In other words, my expectations of Nick or any other son are of no bearing.

It's not skewering, it's what I think. But yet because it doesn't suit you, you get all puffed up and start hurling the accusations of skewering.

It's funny, I thought all opinions were acceptable here, not just what you want to read.

Quote:You yourself have to agree that you are not known for detailed and thought provoking thoughts put into words. Instead you do quite the opposite. You load the post with a bunch of questions, then turn around and accuse others of not answering them.

(04-24-2018, 03:43 AM)dicappatore Wrote:

(04-23-2018, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-23-2018, 12:39 PM)dicappatore Wrote: Here is how you insult others. In this case me, by putting words in my mouth or on my fingers typing these posts. I never asked you to butt in, Please re-read my post. However, I did ask you on how you expect your son to react to a similar situation. Your answer for him to be able to make his own decisions do not answer the question on how you expected him to react, behave.

Both my kids are grown and one is married. At this point I have done as good as a job as i could have and I hope I have given them a foundation set of values to direct them for the rest of their lives. If my son was in similar situation, I wouldn't dare to butt in, advise, if he asked for it, as he does on various matters. I would expect him to stand up for himself and write off someone in his life, similar in behavior, to Juliette.

Juliette made it specifically clear, she was done with Nick. Why are you expecting for him to take her side and not the side of his unborn child? if your son was in a similar situation, I am not asking for you to force or influence his decision in any way. My question still stands. What would you EXPECT him to do. Take the side of a woman that walked out of his life, laughed at his face and stopped communicating with him, at this point, for about a month, or more. Whom would you expect your son to favor, Adalind or Juliette.

Maybe in the real world we don't have girlfriends turning into Hexenbiests. I am sure there are relationships that have broken up yet continue to be in each other's lives.

And let me refresh your so called desire to have a mature conversation with this little tidbit:

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?

Um, I don't get the feeling you meant that as a compliment and since you don't generally converse maturely, then the only thing left is an insult. So please don't act like you're trying to be so mature when you open a post with a question like the above.

What difference does it make to Nick what Kelly expects? She wasn't around for over half of his life as it was. It's not her business and her expectations are a big fat zero where Nick is concerned.

Quote:Juliette made it specifically clear, she was done with Nick.

I know she made it clear she was done with Nick. But when does that suddenly account for hatred? Some couples have a little more going for them then just sex.

And since you're so keen on canon, I wonder why it is that you don't bring up Adalind's statement to Kenneth that Juliette would never betray Nick. For that matter, I wonder why you don't bring up Kenneth telling Juliette that she was loyal to "the Grimm even after what he'd done to her". I also wonder why you don't bring up that Juliette didn't argue with Kenneth and insist that loyalty to Nick was the furthest thing from her mind.

I know you'll never understand this, but it makes no sense that Nick wouldn't choose Juliette over Adalind during that scene. If, as you imply, Nick was trying to get Juliette back by patching things up, why all of the sudden throw all that in the garbage because Adalind comes waddling in to the precinct, claiming she's carrying his son?

All Juliette did at that point was walk out on Nick and sleep with Sean. That is something she's perfectly entitled to do. After all, Nick made it plain that he wasn't going to sleep with her and his "I love you" to her was less than heartfelt.

According to you, Nick was willing to forgive all of that because he was trying and trying and trying and trying to patch things up and get her back. She was there in the precinct. He could have easily patched things up. Yet he chose Adalind who'd done nothing but hurt him and those he loved.

I expect him to take Juliette's side because as so many here are so apt to point out, he loved Juliette and supposedly would go to hell and back for her, even if she laughed at him. I expect him to take Juliette's side because she was willing to become the final ingredient in the spell to give him back his grimm, despite side effects. I expect him to take Juliette's side because he always had her to come home to. I expect him to be there to help her. She didn't ask to become a hexenbiest and paid dearly for it.

Your quote;

Quote:And let me refresh your so called desire to have a mature conversation with this little tidbit:

Then my quote;

Quote:Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?

Then your quote;

Quote:Um, I don't get the feeling you meant that as a compliment and since you don't generally converse maturely, then the only thing left is an insult. So please don't act like you're trying to be so mature when you open a post with a question like the above.

If you are considering the question “Are you capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?” as an insult. That is all on you. I was just asking a question. Not to imply, in general, you not being capable to be a mother. I was implying to be a mom to someone similar, in character, such as Nick, which it is clearly obviously, you hate. Hence the question "Are YOU capable of being objectively at all, as a mother?" Again, not in general but to this character.

Quote:What difference does it make to Nick what Kelly expects? She wasn't around for over half of his life as it was. It's not her business and her expectations are a big fat zero where Nick is concerned.

I never asked you what Kelly expects. Another character, you obviously hate. I asked you what you would expect, if you were the mother of a similar character like Nick. With objectivity.

So far, as predictable, you skewed my questions to mean or redirect to something else. I am hoping I made my self clearer by asking the same questions with better clarity.

Quote:I know she made it clear she was done with Nick. But when does that suddenly account for hatred? Some couples have a little more going for them then just sex.

IMO, the last thing in Nick's mind was to reconcile with Juliette because of sex. If anyone between the two was more concerned about sex in their relationship would be on Juliette, since SHE was the one demanding to be kissed and accepted as a Hex in voge as an old hag and was pissed off he slept on the couch but it was OK for her and you, when he slept on that same couch for weeks in S2.

Quote:And since you're so keen on canon, I wonder why it is that you don't bring up Adalind's statement to Kenneth that Juliette would never betray Nick. For that matter, I wonder why you don't bring up Kenneth telling Juliette that she was loyal to "the Grimm even after what he'd done to her". I also wonder why you don't bring up that Juliette didn't argue with Kenneth and insist that loyalty to Nick was the furthest thing from her mind.

So, just because Adalind says to Ken that Juliette would never betray Nick makes it a fact? Was Adalind even aware what Juliette had done to Nick at this point, to asses her loyalty? Did Adalind had any clue she had moved out and moved in with Sean? She was told by Ken she was arrested but did she know she had moved out on Nick? I do not recall Adalind was aware of their breakup. Again, you asses someone such as Adalind as is she knows what you know as a viewer and expect her to react as if she knows what you know. Again, a baseless opinion stated as factual.

Notice, I never mentioned that Juliette had a shagging with Sean, in this matter, since Adalind, Ken, Nick or anyone else, for that matter, is aware of it. The only ones that know is Juliette and Sean. Even up to the end of the seasons, that was never revealed to anyone else. That is why I DO NOT consider it a factor in their relationship. But I do consider it a factor when we are to be analytical viewers about our opinions.

Just because Ken ridicules Juliette of being still loyal is more speculation on your part. To me, she was being sarcastic to a guy she knew nothing of or never met. Her actions spoke a lot louder than Ken's words. What part of what she had done to Nick so far do you consider "loyal"? Ever hear the term, "actions speak louder that words"? If what Juliette is doing , at this point, as being loyal. well I guess we have different interpretation/meanings of the word.

Quote:I know you'll never understand this, but it makes no sense that Nick wouldn't choose Juliette over Adalind during that scene. If, as you imply, Nick was trying to get Juliette back by patching things up, why all of the sudden throw all that in the garbage because Adalind comes waddling in to the precinct, claiming she's carrying his son?

How is preventing one person from attacking another choosing a side? The only side I see Nick take is to protect an innocent unborn child. She is pregnant, that is a fact. Does it matter if it was his or not so far? He took an oat to serve and protect. Taking a side would be if Nick was preventing Juliette from attacking Adailnd while allowing Adalind to attack Juliette. Thats what taking sides is. More scene speculations that did not happen.

If he let Juliette attack Adalind and kill her and expecting child, lets say, as syschrash claims, she would have gotten away with it. How does that stack up with your claiming of Nick being a corrupt cop?

As for Nick trying to patch things up? Hadn't that ship sailed? What was he doing to betray Juliette? Was preventing her from getting into additional legal problems going against her? Betraying her? Isn't that also Nick protecting Juliette?

What I think you don't seem to understand there was no choice made between the two. If anything, Juliette forced Nick to seek protection for Adalind and the baby, from herself. If Juliette had never shown up to threaten her, would the gang have look to hide Adalind from Juliette? I don't think so.

Quote:All Juliette did at that point was walk out on Nick and sleep with Sean. That is something she's perfectly entitled to do. After all, Nick made it plain that he wasn't going to sleep with her and his "I love you" to her was less than heartfelt.

This I am totally in agreement. By your standards, as far as I can see, they were broken up. No longer an item. By your standards, then why is she pissed off that Adalind is carrying Nicks baby? According to you, she is perfectly entitled to do what she pleases. When Ken told Juliette that Adalind was having her boyfriend baby, why did Juliette looked pissed? According to you, more double standards. Juliette is allowed to not consider Nick her boyfriend yet you expect Nick to still treat her as a girlfriend. Why isn't Nick allowed the same? By my standards, You and Juliette seem to exercise 'Double Standards". She can move out, reject his phone calls, have sex with whom ever she wanted to but Nick isn't even allowed to protect his innocent child, which he had no choice in the making.

Quote:According to you, Nick was willing to forgive all of that because he was trying and trying and trying and trying to patch things up and get her back. She was there in the precinct. He could have easily patched things up. Yet he chose Adalind who'd done nothing but hurt him and those he loved.

Again, you seem to overlook one big factor in the equation. Just one more fact you push aside. One more part of the script you choose NOT to acknowledge. Create a scene that never happened. There was no side to take.
1) Foremost, he was doing a job as a father protecting his unborn child.
2) He was doing his job as a cop, to serve and protect. The demise of 2 persons and preventing Juliette, on bail, from getting additional charges. whether or not, syscrash is able to predict what did not happen.
3) He was doing a job as a Grimm, preventing a Hexenbiest killing an innocent unborn kid.

What was there to pact up? Are you implying if Nick stepped aside and allowed Juliette to proceed with ripping her throat out, killing Adalind and their unborn child. Would that get them back together? Would she just say "thanks Nick" and move back in and live happily ever after? Or is this just more "Fan Fiction" injected into a story line that did not happen?

Quote:I expect him to take Juliette's side because as so many here are so apt to point out, he loved Juliette and supposedly would go to hell and back for her, even if she laughed at him. I expect him to take Juliette's side because she was willing to become the final ingredient in the spell to give him back his grimm, despite side effects. I expect him to take Juliette's side because he always had her to come home to. I expect him to be there to help her. She didn't ask to become a hexenbiest and paid dearly for it.

Finally, you kinda answered my question of what you expected but NOT as a mother of a similar character like Nick, and that is fine. Again, you make claims with the incomplete account of what took place. You claim he did love Juliette to hell and back, but you seem to forget, she rejected his love to hell and back. She moved out and has sex with the Sean, his boss. The same guy that orchestrated what Adalind did to them. The same guy she had a disgusting history (S2) according to her. How can you hold Adalind accountable and not Sean for what BOTH did to Nick and Juliette? More double standards. Nick DID have sex with Adalind but it was not of his choosing. He was tricked into it. Was Juliette tricked into it?

You claim she agreed to be the final ingredient in the spell to get his Grimm back, despite side effects. You can actually predict, if Nick, Juliette and the rest of the crew, knew for a fact, the spell would result in Juliette becoming a Hexenbiest, they would have proceeded with the spell? Here is a reasonable assumption you are unable to accept. Nick would have been to 1st one to object to the spell.

You say "I expect him to take Juliette's side because he always had her to come home to" Maybe that was the case before she moved out. Again, you push aside the FACT, she wasn't home for him to come to anymore. You seem to forget what you said about her being entitled to do. Yet you expect Nick to keep the candle lit for her? Was Juliette keeping the candle lit when she tells Sean she is finishing what she started and starts to unbutton her blouse as she kissed him? Gees, you are the "Ayatollah of double standards" for sure.

You say "I expect him to be there to help her. She didn't ask to become a hexenbiest and paid dearly for it." Again, did I miss a scene where Nick asked her to become a Hexenbiest so he can get his Grimm back? At the same time, you seem to overlook Juliette's rejection to be helped and her accepting her Hex condition in S4, S5 and S6. Remember the "I found a new purpose" speech in S6?

Are all these assumptions you keep claiming as factual considered as being an intelligent mature conversation? Just asking a question, not calling anyone names.