(04-17-2018, 11:55 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 04:14 AM)syscrash Wrote: irukandji asked "Syscrash, do you think Nick enjoyed pinning her down?"

That is a question others have asked. Some have pointed out Nick seemed to have eyes for Adalind day one when he saw her walking down the street. He enjoyed having sex with her. When she was Juliette. But to the question of did he enjoy pinning her down. There are many ways to get your blood into someone. Yet Nick choose to use a very intimate delivery method.

Considering these points I made plus others. Add to that, the writers had them end up together. If them ending up together was the goal from the start then I would say the writers intent was for Nick to actual enjoy pinning her down.

There's also the statement from others that Nick had this planned. If he had this planned, then it's obvious he had it planned for his enjoyment. Seems like it's cheating under the radar, doesn't it?

(04-17-2018, 09:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 11:55 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 04:14 AM)syscrash Wrote: irukandji asked "Syscrash, do you think Nick enjoyed pinning her down?"

That is a question others have asked. Some have pointed out Nick seemed to have eyes for Adalind day one when he saw her walking down the street. He enjoyed having sex with her. When she was Juliette. But to the question of did he enjoy pinning her down. There are many ways to get your blood into someone. Yet Nick choose to use a very intimate delivery method.

Considering these points I made plus others. Add to that, the writers had them end up together. If them ending up together was the goal from the start then I would say the writers intent was for Nick to actual enjoy pinning her down.

There's also the statement from others that Nick had this planned. If he had this planned, then it's obvious he had it planned for his enjoyment. Seems like it's cheating under the radar, doesn't it?

So you keep pointing out that I am a bully, name caller and unable to have a serious conversation with you about any subject at hand. Ok, lets put aside all that you are complaining about and let us have an serious mature and intelligent conversation about this character Juliette.

As stated above, you are claiming that Nick went out that night to secretively cheat on Juliette by what he did to take away her Hex, you consider it as cheating. We might disagree if he enjoyed it but he did place his lips on hers and he did stick his tongue into her mouth for her to bite and draw blood.

My question to you is, when Juliette had sex with Sean after she moved out of the home she shared with Nick and before Sean kicked her out, was that cheating? Was it worse? Was having sex with Sean the same as Nick kissing Adalind?

Now, before you claim, she was on a break. How do you explain what Juliette said in the police precinct to Nick, when she confronted Nick and a pregnant Adalind. Didn't she ask Nick, paraphrasing, "so you are choosing her over me"? Now, they may not be the exact words but if they were on a break, why is she complaining whom he is choosing?

Didn't she already rejected Nick by moving out? If they were on a break why ask whom was he choosing? If they were not, isn't what she did a lot worse in the 'secretive cheating' category than the Nick/Adalind Kiss?

You asked to have a serious conversation, so here it is and awaiting your reply.

Quote:Rosalee tells Nick that because Hank and Adalind have had sex, the cure is useless and the only way to cure Hank is to kill the Hexenbiest whose blood was in the potion. Nick then gets a call from Adalind and she says that Hank will be dead by morning unless she gets the key. She tells him to bring the key to the Bremen Ruins. Rosalee tells Nick that he can't kill her as that won't break the hold she has on Hank. The only way to break the hold is with the blood of a Grimm, his blood, which will kill the Hexenbiest spirit within her.

Nick and Adalind meet, but instead of giving her the key he challenges her to fight. She agrees, and woges into her Hexenbiest form. During the fight she woges back into human form and Nick kisses her on the lips, forcing her to bite his lip and swallow some of his blood. The Hexenbiest spirit then leaves Adalind and Hank wakes up. Adalind tells Nick that he has killed her, she doesn't have any powers and is just like everybody else, that she is nothing. She walks away crying. Monroe calls Nick and says that Hank is okay and he's wondering what they are doing in Adalind's bedroom.

Adalind goes to her mother's house where her mother and Renard declare that she is useless to them now, just another pretty girl.

Quote:Renard arrives home and goes to his room, sore after his fight with Kenneth. ("Heartbreaker") Juliette asks where Adalind is, and Renard asks her how she got in there. She reminds him he gave her a key, and Renard asks for it back. Juliette asks what happened to him, and he tells her he met the new Prince in town. Juliette asks if Adalind is with him because she wants to kill her, and Renard says that's a good idea. He tells Juliette that they are staying at the Hotel deLuxe, and Juliette starts taking her shirt off. Renard asks what she is doing, and she says, "Finishing what we started." She rubs his lip and asks if it hurts. Renard grabs her wrist and tells her it does. She tells him, "So will this," and they begin kissing.

Quote:Renard: I met the new Prince in town.
Juliette: Is Adalind with him?
Renard: Why?
Juliette: I'm gonna kill her.
Renard: Good idea. She's at the Deluxe Hotel. Careful, though. Kenneth is not Viktor.
Juliette: Apparently. [She starts unbuttoning her shirt]
Renard: What are you doing?
Juliette: Finishing what we started. [She takes her shirt off. She then touches Renard's lip] Does that hurt?
Renard: [He grabs Juliette's wrist] Yeah.
Juliette: So will this.
Renard: Good. [He and Juliette start kissing]

(04-18-2018, 08:33 AM)New Guy Wrote: So Nick kissed Adalind to have her ingest Grimm blood to kill her Hexenbiest and save Hank's life. Juliette tells Renard she wants to kill Adalind, he agrees that would be good, she begins stripping for him, they agree to do something that would hurt and start kissing.
I do not see any similarity between these scenes. Nick's motivation is to save Hank; a selfless act of courage. Juliette's motivation is to kill Adalind and engage in "hurt sex" with Nick's scumbag boss; vile, baseless acts of hatred.
N G

(04-17-2018, 09:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 11:55 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 04:14 AM)syscrash Wrote: irukandji asked "Syscrash, do you think Nick enjoyed pinning her down?"

That is a question others have asked. Some have pointed out Nick seemed to have eyes for Adalind day one when he saw her walking down the street. He enjoyed having sex with her. When she was Juliette. But to the question of did he enjoy pinning her down. There are many ways to get your blood into someone. Yet Nick choose to use a very intimate delivery method.

Considering these points I made plus others. Add to that, the writers had them end up together. If them ending up together was the goal from the start then I would say the writers intent was for Nick to actual enjoy pinning her down.

There's also the statement from others that Nick had this planned. If he had this planned, then it's obvious he had it planned for his enjoyment. Seems like it's cheating under the radar, doesn't it?

So you keep pointing out that I am a bully, name caller and unable to have a serious conversation with you about any subject at hand. Ok, lets put aside all that you are complaining about and let us have an serious mature and intelligent conversation about this character Juliette.

As stated above, you are claiming that Nick went out that night to secretively cheat on Juliette by what he did to take away her Hex, you consider it as cheating. We might disagree if he enjoyed it but he did place his lips on hers and he did stick his tongue into her mouth for her to bite and draw blood.

My question to you is, when Juliette had sex with Sean after she moved out of the home she shared with Nick and before Sean kicked her out, was that cheating? Was it worse? Was having sex with Sean the same as Nick kissing Adalind?

Now, before you claim, she was on a break. How do you explain what Juliette said in the police precinct to Nick, when she confronted Nick and a pregnant Adalind. Didn't she ask Nick, paraphrasing, "so you are choosing her over me"? Now, they may not be the exact words but if they were on a break, why is she complaining whom he is choosing?

Didn't she already rejected Nick by moving out? If they were on a break why ask whom was he choosing? If they were not, isn't what she did a lot worse in the 'secretive cheating' category than the Nick/Adalind Kiss?

You asked to have a serious conversation, so here it is and awaiting your reply.

(04-18-2018, 06:29 PM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 09:26 PM)dicappatore Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 11:55 AM)irukandji Wrote:

(04-17-2018, 04:14 AM)syscrash Wrote: irukandji asked "Syscrash, do you think Nick enjoyed pinning her down?"

That is a question others have asked. Some have pointed out Nick seemed to have eyes for Adalind day one when he saw her walking down the street. He enjoyed having sex with her. When she was Juliette. But to the question of did he enjoy pinning her down. There are many ways to get your blood into someone. Yet Nick choose to use a very intimate delivery method.

Considering these points I made plus others. Add to that, the writers had them end up together. If them ending up together was the goal from the start then I would say the writers intent was for Nick to actual enjoy pinning her down.

There's also the statement from others that Nick had this planned. If he had this planned, then it's obvious he had it planned for his enjoyment. Seems like it's cheating under the radar, doesn't it?

So you keep pointing out that I am a bully, name caller and unable to have a serious conversation with you about any subject at hand. Ok, lets put aside all that you are complaining about and let us have an serious mature and intelligent conversation about this character Juliette.

As stated above, you are claiming that Nick went out that night to secretively cheat on Juliette by what he did to take away her Hex, you consider it as cheating. We might disagree if he enjoyed it but he did place his lips on hers and he did stick his tongue into her mouth for her to bite and draw blood.

My question to you is, when Juliette had sex with Sean after she moved out of the home she shared with Nick and before Sean kicked her out, was that cheating? Was it worse? Was having sex with Sean the same as Nick kissing Adalind?

Now, before you claim, she was on a break. How do you explain what Juliette said in the police precinct to Nick, when she confronted Nick and a pregnant Adalind. Didn't she ask Nick, paraphrasing, "so you are choosing her over me"? Now, they may not be the exact words but if they were on a break, why is she complaining whom he is choosing?

Didn't she already rejected Nick by moving out? If they were on a break why ask whom was he choosing? If they were not, isn't what she did a lot worse in the 'secretive cheating' category than the Nick/Adalind Kiss?

You asked to have a serious conversation, so here it is and awaiting your reply.

You've already broken your word, so please, don't hold yourself to some standard you have no intention of keeping. I see in your most recent post you already couldn't contain yourself to write without some kind of insult. So no one believes any so called sincerity on your part. Comprenez vous?

Syscrash's observation of Nick's cheating is a topic which, for as long as I've been on the forum, has never been addressed. It's worthy of intelligent discussion because there's much more to it. Yet you seem to think that, for the thousandth time, Juliette's bad behavior needs to be discussed. You claim you're trying to compare the two scenes in some effort to use comparative reasoning. Yet you believe Juliette was cheating. You've stated it in other threads.

Why is it that Juliette was cheating, but Nick wasn't? You state, "It will be hard to discount one as a cheater and not the other if they use the same standards".

Now before you go haywire and accuse me of the usual twisting things around, remember, it was you that brought up this comparative reasoning crap. Certainly if you pose questions, you are subject to questions as well correct?

I would be interested in knowing exactly what standards you are using. Not the same ones to be sure.

It's my hope that Syscrash and Robyn will continue the discussion about Nick.

But since you're on the subject of Juliette, I have a question for you.

If there was still a bond between Nick and Juliette, as you seem to believe, then why did Nick make the conscious decision to choose Adalind? Please don't provide the mundane answer that he was trying to save her life.

Nick was not sleeping with Juliette once he found out she was a hexenbiest. I would say that's a pretty good indicator that he no longer wanted her as his lover.

Quote:Nick wanted to work thing out, just because he would not kiss her or sleep in the same bed is not cheating.

Quote: If you are claiming they were on a break, then why is Juliette complaining to Nick that he is choosing Adalind and not her. Did Nick choose Adalind at the house when she voged or did nick just prevented Juliette from getting arrested again. How is this Nick cheating? How is Nick choosing Adalind over Juliette when Juliette moved out?

Quote: You want to have the discussion, then rebuff my examples with specific rebuttals instead of vague statements. This is why I can not have an intelligent discussion with you. Look at your replies.

Quote: If you are going to use the same standards on both characters, just do it instead of skirting the issue. be specific. Prove me wrong.

Quote:Are you actually still claiming that when Nick was fighting with Adalind and stuck his tongue in her mouth so she would bite him and loose her Hex was cheating?

Quote:instead of saving Hank's life?

Quote: And if it was a kiss, was it the same as her having sex with Sean?

(04-18-2018, 07:27 PM)syscrash Wrote: Did Nick cheat is subjective. For me I have trouble accepting the concept of emotional cheating. In episode one the way he was eyeing Adalind. Had Juliette been there I would suspect she would have said something, as hard as he was staring at her. Now the argument could be made it was the Grimm in him that caused him to feel something was different about her. This suspension was answered when she woged. But even it that was not the case,some may have a problem with it I don't. I have been with women who do.

Then there is the damenfore. She was coming on to Nick and he was encouraging her attention. Two things Juliette was suspicious, plus Nick was feeling guilty. I will admit there are two ways of looking at why Nick had an interest. One it could be she was one of the first wesen he dealt with. He was also working on a case. But he also could have been attracted to her advances. On this one it would amount to emotional cheating, which I do not put a lot of stock in. I already talked about the kiss / lip bite. Then you have when Adalind tricked him into sleeping with her. Nick not being outraged could show he was ok with it which one could say he was emotionally cheating.

Even though I have pointed out the events that using a lose definition could be considered cheating. I myself do not see it as cheating. Not because there are explanations for each of the actions. To be cheating the character would need to intend on cheating. Take an actor, even though they do all kind of things on screen, the intent dos not exist. That is why quoting some definition does not prove a point.