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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 03-03-2018
(03-03-2018, 10:53 AM)Henry of green Wrote: How exactly was I to know you were going to delted the post or that it wasn’t what you really thought you have implied on more than one occasion in the past that Adalind killed Marie.
I seem to recall you indicated you weren't going to respond to my posts any longer. I mean you've made a big deal about me making up things and lying. So why now unless you wanted to make a big deal out of a mistake?
RE: Eve/Juliette - Henry of green - 03-03-2018
(03-03-2018, 10:58 AM)irukandji Wrote:(03-03-2018, 10:53 AM)Henry of green Wrote: How exactly was I to know you were going to delted the post or that it wasn’t what you really thought you have implied on more than one occasion in the past that Adalind killed Marie.
I seem to recall you indicated you weren't going to respond to my posts any longer. I mean you've made a big deal about me making up things and lying. So why now unless you wanted to make a big deal out of a mistake?
Irk, I didn’t call you a liar I just didn’t believe you because of previous statements you’ve made about her killing Marie, like this one from an earlier thread. I could bring up other past posts you’ve made, you have accused Adalind multiple times of killing Marie. So how exactly was I to know you had made a mistake with your post.
But if you insist I was in the Wrong I believe you and apologize.
(11-07-2017, 12:40 PM)irukandji Wrote:(11-07-2017, 12:39 PM)Henry of green Wrote: At least Adalind didn't help murder innocent people the only two people she killed were in self defense.
She murdered Marie. She tried to murder Hank. I thought the catscratch spell would have killed Juliette had Catherine not intervened. Those acts were not done in self-defense.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 03-03-2018
(03-02-2018, 12:27 PM)New Guy Wrote: Why didn't he tell her to pack up and leave his house? Was he so blinded by love that rationality escaped him?
Hi New Guy-
Your first question is a good one and I also wondered why Nick didn't simply tell Juliette to leave. Nick really comes down to being an inconsistent character. He blindly embraces the grimm life after wise old Aunt Marie instructs him about his misfortune, but completely ignores her when she tells him to get rid of Juliette.
I don't see Nick as a man blinded by love. If he was, his whole affect toward Juliette would be completely different. And as we saw how readily he embraced the grimm lifestyle, it's apparent he never considered Juliette the highlight of his life.
(03-02-2018, 12:27 PM)New Guy Wrote: Could he not see her true personality?Juliette's personality before she was a hexenbiest was completely different than after the merge with the hexenbiest spirit. My answer would be that the hexenbiest personality was the false one simply because there was another entity at work there.
(03-02-2018, 12:27 PM)New Guy Wrote: Even finding his mother's head in a box didn't cure him.
I'm not condoning Juliette's actions one bit. However, in my opinion, Nick should have given a great deal more leniency to her. After all, it was the spell to cure him that she was helping with. Nick never bothered to research the so called side effects from the spell. Nor did he ever wonder just how far Juliette would go as a hexenbiest.
Adalind's actions in attempting to take Aunt Marie's life resulted in her dying sooner than if the cancer would have claimed her. Yet Nick never weighs the impact of Adalind's actions.
His treatment of the two women is very strange indeed. Juliette helps him with a spell and ends up being a target of his wrath. Again, I'm not condoning what she did, but there were extenuating circumstances involved in her transformation. Adalind has no such excuse. She contributes to the early death of his aunt, and the most Nick does is remove her hexenbiest powers and send her off to live another day. It's a very imbalanced view which really makes no sense for his character.
(03-02-2018, 12:27 PM)New Guy Wrote: Would Grimm be in season seven if Nick ditched the bitch and set himself free to become a lone wolf Grimm?
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Some of the things I saw in season 5 led me to believe that Adalind was destined to once again become the bad girl. I also think the series was leaning toward a Nick and Juliette pairing.
However, I would definitely prefer to see your version of Nick, the lone wolf grimm.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Robyn - 03-04-2018
We delved into the difficulties Juliette encountered continuing her relationship with Nick after he became a Grimm and the Hexenbiest’s volatile impact on her life, relationship, and friendships. But we haven’t devoted much of the recent discussion to the positive and/or negative impact of the Eve personality.
I instantly disliked Juliette being completely eliminated and replaced with the Eve personality that mimicked a CIA MKUltra project. I think it was an unnecessary negative impact on the Juliette character’s emotional/mental strength that had been established during the first four and half seasons.
But if the show was determined to eliminate ties to Juliette’s briefly volatile past, it should have at least committed to the new Eve character evolving and learning social interaction skills rather than a stick whammy merging the two personalities. I tried to take an objective look at the positive and negative, but kept reaching the same conclusion - Hexenbiest Juliette, Eve, and Eve/Juliette was a hot mess that didn’t advance the character or her role in the storyline.
The way it played out, the S6 Eve/Juliette hybrid was a mentally/physically compromised soldier deemed unfit to continue in the war against BC, a person without a clear past or future, whose friendships were rooted in her pre-Hexenbiest Juliette life. And just as the Eve/Juliette hybrid declares she’s accepted who/what she is and her role in the battle against evil, the character is stripped of her Hexenbiest strength/abilities and returns to being human.
Any thoughts on what I’m missing that would help make sense of the rollercoaster character changes?
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 03-04-2018
(03-04-2018, 10:51 AM)Robyn Wrote: The way it played out, the S6 Eve/Juliette hybrid was a mentally/physically compromised soldier deemed unfit to continue in the war against BC, a person without a clear past or future, whose friendships were rooted in her pre-Hexenbiest Juliette life.
I always hated this aspect of the storyline. It's apparent HW was a black funded government program. If Eve was so all powerful and important as the series tried to portray, HW would have never left her in the hands of the scoobies.
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 03-04-2018
I think they- Monroe, Rosalee, Hank and others- be more afraid of Juliette " Hexenbiest" than Adalind " Hexenbiest".
Juliette was more about physically fighting than Adalind.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Robyn - 03-04-2018
(03-04-2018, 11:29 AM)irukandji Wrote:I would agree with you on HW’s attitude had the show not made a point to establish Eve was no longer the person introduced in ‘Eve of Destruction’. The stick whammy ultimately sealed her fate, but she was already showing signs of reacting to her (or Juliette’s) feelings for Nick.(03-04-2018, 10:51 AM)Robyn Wrote: The way it played out, the S6 Eve/Juliette hybrid was a mentally/physically compromised soldier deemed unfit to continue in the war against BC, a person without a clear past or future, whose friendships were rooted in her pre-Hexenbiest Juliette life.I always hated this aspect of the storyline. It's apparent HW was a black funded government program. If Eve was so all powerful and important as the series tried to portray, HW would have never left her in the hands of the scoobies.
HW was obviously Trubel’s priority, because she didn’t hesitate to leave Nick to deal with Renard and any other BC fallout once receiving orders to join up with another HW unit. So although it wasn’t shown, it’s reasonable to assume Trubel informed HW that Eve had been compromised mentally and physically. HW put too much effort into turning a Hexenbiest into a loyal fighting machine to scrap Eve if they believed she was still a valuable asset.
It would be interesting to know whether blending the Eve & Juliette personalities was planned at the start or conceived after G & K learned S6 would be the last season. It makes sense they might decide that putting Eve/Juliette into the core group was easier for a final season. Maybe if FitC visits the thread he can offer some insight into the timing of the cancellation announcement and when the last few episodes were written/aired.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hexenadler - 03-04-2018
(03-02-2018, 05:03 AM)irukandji Wrote:(03-01-2018, 06:59 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Uh...yeah, pretty much. The show maintained N&J's relationship for three seasons, then promptly trashed it in just a few episodes, purely in favor of making "Nadalind" happen (and if you support THAT relationship, accusing "Nickette" of being dangerous is the peak of hypocrisy).
I know you're referring to a different issue here, Hexenadler, but your post gave me some food for thought. The foundation of Nick and Adalind's relationship *is* one of hypocrisy. Nick hated her. She hated him. She was never going to come crawling to him but for the fact the royals threw her out and she had no where to go. He would have never taken her into his private and personal house but did so because....why? Adalind offered and provided him with a spell that was never going to work on Juliette.
Exactly. Adalind's decision to join Team Grimm was motivated by purely pragmatic reasons. That's why Nick & Adalind's relationship never felt sincere, and more importantly, earned. That's what made the outcomes of seasons 4 and 5 so upsetting for me; it was painfully obvious the writers just didn't care. When you become emotionally invested in characters only to watch them unravel because of indifferent screenwriting, it's the lousiest feeling in the world.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 03-04-2018
(03-04-2018, 01:52 PM)Robyn Wrote: I would agree with you on HW’s attitude had the show not made a point to establish Eve was no longer the person introduced in ‘Eve of Destruction’. The stick whammy ultimately sealed her fate, but she was already showing signs of reacting to her (or Juliette’s) feelings for Nick.
HW was obviously Trubel’s priority, because she didn’t hesitate to leave Nick to deal with Renard and any other BC fallout once receiving orders to join up with another HW unit. So although it wasn’t shown, it’s reasonable to assume Trubel informed HW that Eve had been compromised mentally and physically. HW put too much effort into turning a Hexenbiest into a loyal fighting machine to scrap Eve if they believed she was still a valuable asset.
Eve was always going to have to utilize Juliette's memories from day one. That one thing made her a resounding failure instead of HW's sooper dooper fighting machine. Everytime I think about Eve I despise Meisner more and more.
RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 03-05-2018
(03-02-2018, 05:03 AM)irukandji Wrote:Hi Iruk,(03-01-2018, 06:59 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Uh...yeah, pretty much. The show maintained N&J's relationship for three seasons, then promptly trashed it in just a few episodes, purely in favor of making "Nadalind" happen (and if you support THAT relationship, accusing "Nickette" of being dangerous is the peak of hypocrisy).
I know you're referring to a different issue here, Hexenadler, but your post gave me some food for thought. The foundation of Nick and Adalind's relationship *is* one of hypocrisy. Nick hated her. She hated him. She was never going to come crawling to him but for the fact the royals threw her out and she had no where to go. He would have never taken her into his private and personal house but did so because....why? Adalind offered and provided him with a spell that was never going to work on Juliette.
You asked:
Quote:He [Nick] would have never taken her [Adalind] into his private and personal house but did so because....why?As I recall, Rosalee urged Nick to be with Adalind when Kelly was born. Nick held Kelly in the hospital room and bonded with his son. It was Adalind that suggested the name Kelly. It was Adalind that offered to set aside their past and work together on behalf of their child.
IMO, the answer to your "why" is simply "Kelly".
Note that Juliette rejected the suppressant potion and threatened to kill Adalind and baby Kelly.
These were all plot lines contrived by G&K grasping for reasons viewers to watch Grimm on Friday night. I continued watching to see Hexenette get her just deserts. The Nadalid arc was a bore to me. One may wonder why NBC didn't cancel Grimm in season 5.
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