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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - Robyn - 02-27-2018
(02-26-2018, 09:39 PM)irukandji Wrote: If Juliette was part of Nick's character profile, then the series did a poor job of making that evident. She should have been near the top of his character profile then and as such, marriage should have never been removed from the table.I don’t think Juliette was presented as Nick’s first priority. If she was he would have told her about the Grimm/Wesen world and allowed her to make her own decision about her life, or, he would have ended the relationship to remove her from the dangers of his Grimm world.
Even when he lost his powers and had the opportunity to prove how important Juliette was to him, Nick passed up on the opportunity. He hedged around and acted like moving away, marrying Juliette, and raising children was desirable. But then he shifted gears and admitted that he liked being a grimm and was pissed that it was taken from him. In my opinion, that does not suggest that Juliette was part of Nick's character profile.
I think the whole significant other in Nick's life was more of a scale. In other words, the grimm life continually measured against a normal life. The grimm life always wins.
As for being rooted, I'm not sure why Renard would make such a statement. There was no indication from Nick himself that he was going to leave Portland if Juliette passed. He was on the job before he ever met Juliette, he had a house, a circle of admiring scoobies to ease his grief and his grimness which he loved above all else. To me, it seems those are indications that Nick intended to reside permanently in Portland.
Nick wanted to be with Juliette, and would have married her if she’d gone along with it, but he never expressed that he was willing to give up the Grimm life if she accepted his proposal. A committed relationship and strong friendships were utilized to keep Nick in one place, but Nick wasn’t presented as cherishing Juliette above all else.
As you said, the Grimm life always wins, which Nick pretty much confirmed when he told Adalind in S5 that he and Juliette had a chance for a normal life and they chose not to take it. And Juliette later substantiated the ‘Grimm comes first’ premise when she told Nick in S6 that she now understood him in a way she couldn’t when human.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hexenadler - 02-27-2018
(02-26-2018, 07:03 AM)Robyn Wrote: As for Juliette specifically in S5. The new Eve character was introduced as being indifferent to Nick and his personal woes. She wanted to utilize his Grimm abilities but didn’t feel any concern for him as a man or a Grimm. That attitude didn’t fit within the show’s streamlined use of the characters. The ‘good guy’ characters were loyal to Nick, period, and the show quickly transitioned Eve into expressing affection for Nick and caring about his personal woes. I don’t recall a character - good, bad, recurring, or episode specific - who remained indifferent to Nick.
Juliette also got Nick's mother decapitated, in addition to a couple of unnamed neighbors the writers assumed we'd conveniently forget about. You don't get to be "indifferent" towards the man you wronged on such a spectacular level, lady.
You'll notice that Eve mostly kept up her air of indifference until the end of S5, when the stick did something funky to her (G&K never bothered to clarify exactly what). Some aspects of Juliette returned to Eve, but she never stopped calling herself Eve, even though she was practically Juliette for all intents and purposes by the end of the series. G&K never had Eve declare outright that she was Juliette again because doing so would basically be an indirect confession that Eve was an all-around failure as a character.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 02-27-2018
Its just so mind boggling how some just keep trying to make the show more and more about Juliette when the show is about Nick. Hey, if anyone wants to wet their panties on a TV Show, where the principle character is a woman, try "The Client List", "Reign", "Charmed" "Reba" or so many more shows with a female character as the principle persona.
Talk about dealing with reality? No matter how hard and improvising some want to get, Grimm is a show with a male central figure. Post all you wish to post on these threads. It will not change what we saw in the 6 seasons of Grimm.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hell Rell - 02-27-2018
Let's not pretend like Juliette didn't play a substantial role later in the series. This isn't about likeability. It's like saying Felicity or Iris don't play substantial roles in Arrow or The Flash. In the case of Felicity, to the ire of myself and many others, she got more screentime in the final episode of the big crossover than every other character.
Juliette received a lot of attention in the later seasons even though she wasn't the main character. In fact, it was a point of contention in this very forum. She had a very big part to play in the biggest mystery on the show and Nick really didn't get actively involved in it until the last handful of episodes. There were times where it seemed like Juliette was driving that story. She gets talked about a lot because she's divisive and got a ton of screen time as the show was winding down. In the final season, I can only remember Tree People and the finale being the only episodes where she wasn't seen all that much.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Robyn - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 11:52 AM)Hexenadler Wrote: Juliette also got Nick's mother decapitated, in addition to a couple of unnamed neighbors the writers assumed we'd conveniently forget about. You don't get to be "indifferent" towards the man you wronged on such a spectacular level, lady.I don’t think G & K had any intention of bringing the S4 fallout into the last two seasons for the sake of Juliette atoning for her sins or so she and Nick could find closure. G & K never devoted much screen time to consequences and closure. The characters simply moved on to a new storyline. They probably wanted to soften Eve’s hard edges by infusing some of Juliette’s softer personality so she’d fit more comfortably in the group, but I don’t think they ever wanted the other characters or viewers thinking of her as the Juliette they once knew.
You'll notice that Eve mostly kept up her air of indifference until the end of S5, when the stick did something funky to her (G&K never bothered to clarify exactly what). Some aspects of Juliette returned to Eve, but she never stopped calling herself Eve, even though she was practically Juliette for all intents and purposes by the end of the series. G&K never had Eve declare outright that she was Juliette again because doing so would basically be an indirect confession that Eve was an all-around failure as a character.
(02-27-2018, 02:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Juliette received a lot of attention in the later seasons even though she wasn't the main character. In fact, it was a point of contention in this very forum. She had a very big part to play in the biggest mystery on the show and Nick really didn't get actively involved in it until the last handful of episodes. There were times where it seemed like Juliette was driving that story. She gets talked about a lot because she's divisive and got a ton of screen time as the show was winding down. In the final season, I can only remember Tree People and the finale being the only episodes where she wasn't seen all that much.I thought Juliette had a rather large role in the final season, too. At the time I figured they connected her to the coming big bad so there would be a need for her to stay with the group. I also wondered why they didn’t devote as much screen time to Eve in S5 when the world was supposedly in the grips of a global Wesen takeover that HW was combating, because Nick didn’t get actively involved in that until the last few episodes either.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hexenadler - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 01:07 PM)dicappatore Wrote: Its just so mind boggling how some just keep trying to make the show more and more about Juliette when the show is about Nick. Hey, if anyone wants to wet their panties on a TV Show, where the principle character is a woman, try "The Client List", "Reign", "Charmed" "Reba" or so many more shows with a female character as the principle persona.
Talk about dealing with reality? No matter how hard and improvising some want to get, Grimm is a show with a male central figure. Post all you wish to post on these threads. It will not change what we saw in the 6 seasons of Grimm.
We'll talk about what we want to talk about, dicap, and your spiky attitude won't do anything to change that. Drop the bad manners already. Last warning.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 02:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Let's not pretend like Juliette didn't play a substantial role later in the series. This isn't about likeability. It's like saying Felicity or Iris don't play substantial roles in Arrow or The Flash. In the case of Felicity, to the ire of myself and many others, she got more screentime in the final episode of the big crossover than every other character.
Juliette received a lot of attention in the later seasons even though she wasn't the main character. In fact, it was a point of contention in this very forum. She had a very big part to play in the biggest mystery on the show and Nick really didn't get actively involved in it until the last handful of episodes. There were times where it seemed like Juliette was driving that story. She gets talked about a lot because she's divisive and got a ton of screen time as the show was winding down. In the final season, I can only remember Tree People and the finale being the only episodes where she wasn't seen all that much.
Are you directing this at something I wrote? If you are, I never implied that Juliette didn't get a lot of attention. I only disagreed with the statement that Juliette was a part of Nick's character profile. When I wrote about her being a priority, that had nothing to do with screen time. It had to do with Nick not viewing her as a priority.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 02:54 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Let's not pretend like Juliette didn't play a substantial role later in the series. This isn't about likeability. It's like saying Felicity or Iris don't play substantial roles in Arrow or The Flash. In the case of Felicity, to the ire of myself and many others, she got more screentime in the final episode of the big crossover than every other character.
Juliette received a lot of attention in the later seasons even though she wasn't the main character. In fact, it was a point of contention in this very forum. She had a very big part to play in the biggest mystery on the show and Nick really didn't get actively involved in it until the last handful of episodes. There were times where it seemed like Juliette was driving that story. She gets talked about a lot because she's divisive and got a ton of screen time as the show was winding down. In the final season, I can only remember Tree People and the finale being the only episodes where she wasn't seen all that much.
If I came across as saying she wasn't a substantial character in the show is not the case. She was part of the main re-occurring cast. The point I was trying to make is that she was not "the" main character, as some are trying to make her out to be. Maybe they are not being forthwith that claim since they skirt about the issue of how the writers flocked up her character. How the writers left holes in her profile, of her profession and motherhood tendencies to the Juliette we met in the pilot episode.
Given the time slot for the show, how much more detail can a supporting character get? Thats my point. An any given series, you can only give so much on a characters profile. Pointing to the Arrow, how many episodes you are still learning on his background story? I am sure we would have loved to know more in the rest of the supporting characters of that show too but there is only so much time.
Back to the point I was trying to make. The reason Juliette did not get the same or more coverage, is not because she was insignificant, she just wasn't first on the pecking order, as some are trying to make her out to be. No matter how many times the subject is skewed on other post or by reviving this one.
On a similar note. I heard Reggie Lee auditioned for the Hank part and did not get it, but the creative team liked him so much, they created the Wu character, just for him. So much on the theory of all of the show's per-planning.
If they could have changed their mind on the creation of the Wu character for the pilot, it shows us how flexible they were. I am sure the fact that the main character was in a relationship with the Juliette actress was a factor. Maybe not the only factor but I am sure it added to it enough to push it over the edge. Again, it is an opinion, but at least it is backed up with facts on the creative team's behavior, not something I am just pulling out of my arse.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hell Rell - 02-27-2018
(02-27-2018, 04:46 PM)irukandji Wrote: Are you directing this at something I wrote? If you are, I never implied that Juliette didn't get a lot of attention. I only disagreed with the statement that Juliette was a part of Nick's character profile. When I wrote about her being a priority, that had nothing to do with screen time. It had to do with Nick not viewing her as a priority.
This wasn't directed at you. I know what you were trying to say. It was directed at people wondering why Juliette gets talked about so much in general.
As for Nick's character profile, I would say she was a part of it early on. She was a priority for him even though she wasn't the main one all of the time. Nick was devoted to her for nearly four seasons and her being in the dark and having her awakening were both big storylines. A good amount of Nick's personal angst was directly tied to her.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 02-28-2018
(02-27-2018, 09:31 PM)Hell Rell Wrote:(02-27-2018, 04:46 PM)irukandji Wrote: Are you directing this at something I wrote? If you are, I never implied that Juliette didn't get a lot of attention. I only disagreed with the statement that Juliette was a part of Nick's character profile. When I wrote about her being a priority, that had nothing to do with screen time. It had to do with Nick not viewing her as a priority.
This wasn't directed at you. I know what you were trying to say. It was directed at people wondering why Juliette gets talked about so much in general.
I misunderstood. Sorry about that and thanks for clarifying.
(02-27-2018, 09:31 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: As for Nick's character profile, I would say she was a part of it early on. She was a priority for him even though she wasn't the main one all of the time. Nick was devoted to her for nearly four seasons and her being in the dark and having her awakening were both big storylines. A good amount of Nick's personal angst was directly tied to her.
I wouldn't say what we saw between Nick and Juliette constitutes devotion on his part. If that was the case, there wouldn't have been so many posts voicing such irritation with Juliette, and to a lesser extent, Nick himself. After all, if it's obvious there are some people here who really are smitten with him as the main character and feel he generally makes the right decision. So why would decisions in his love life be subject to scrutiny then? If he truly loved her, then I believe most viewers would go along with that, even if her love for Nick in return was not on the same level.
Nick, to me, is just one of those guys who wants a woman in his life, but just isn't capable of having the depth of maturity to show her that she's the one who's a priority to him. I could see them squalbbling, Juliette questioning his love for her, and Nick responding by saying, "well, I took on you on that romantic weekend...........er, uh four years ago, right? Remember? I even proposed.
Look, what more do you want?"