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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 01-04-2016
I was showing the contrast between Nick as a parents and Sean as a parent. Where Sean always ways his options and picks the best tactical recourse. Nick is moved by emotions and will charge into a losing situation. He does it because that is what a hero does, not because he knows he will win. Nick and Juliette where all about sacrifice. Sean and Adalind where and are about winning.
The rejection was from Nick never being able to accept her for what she is. The spit is from Juliette realizing she gave her life, and now they only see a monster.
Since they only see her as a monster she will be the best she can, which is the birth of Eve. Eve being everything they where afraid of.
RE: Eve/Juliette - speakeasy - 01-04-2016
(01-04-2016, 05:50 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(01-04-2016, 05:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote: But I don't know how much Juliette was reacting from the pain of Nick's rejection at first or his wanting to change her back instead of trying to remake their relationship with its new dimensions.
I'm slowly putting together a fanfic based on this scenario. Normally I turn my nose up at fan-fiction, but the outcome to season four just left me too damn depressed.
One of these days, I might actually finish it.
I don't normally read fanfic because I don't have time mostly. But I would definitely read yours! You know, I used to think J and N couldn't forge out a way to stay together back in the day, but if the show runners can pitch a Hexenbiest/Grimm relationship (still predict they won't stay together as a couple; too much history), why not just have made it between Juliette and Nick, as I believe you have discussed many times. Keep us posted!
(01-04-2016, 05:20 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Speakeasy,
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Haha, good one! But I knew there was a catch, gotta pay to join up. Don't like to throw my money around on an internet deal.
(01-04-2016, 05:53 PM)syscrash Wrote: I was showing the contrast between Nick as a parents and Sean as a parent. Where Sean always ways his options and picks the best tactical recourse. Nick is moved by emotions and will charge into a losing situation. He does it because that is what a hero does, not because he knows he will win. Nick and Juliette where all about sacrifice. Sean and Adalind where and are about winning.
That's an accurate assessment as far as it goes. I don't agree completely though, because there are always details that complicate ideas that contain limited context. The thing is, Renard was always on the run from threats to his life from his estranged and ruthless family. The Queen tried to have him and his mother killed. It would predictably make him wary of all situations; he's sort of has to figure how his survival (and ambitions, I admit) figures into all things he's involved in. Adalind was motivated by love of Diana, imo. But her original motivation in conceiving the child, etc., was about winning, we think alike on that.
Nick is a true hero, I agree. Where Renard is, in my opinion, a good man, Nick is one of the best of men. Love both characters but Renard is my very favorite on the show. But when it comes to fathers loving their children, I haven't seen one single thing that would indicate that Nick loves his child more than Sean. Not speaking to future developments; maybe things will change my mind.
RE: Eve/Juliette - wfmyers1207 - 01-05-2016
@speakeasy. I agree with you about Sean. Many fans seem to think of him as evil. But I've always run him some slack because of what happened during his childhood.
Having members of your own family and their flunkies trying to hunt you down and kill you when you are just a kid!!?? That could distort anyone's perception of the world!
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hexenadler - 01-05-2016
(01-04-2016, 05:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote: Nick is a true hero, I agree. Where Renard is, in my opinion, a good man, Nick is one of the best of men.
IMO, Nick blew his chance at being a "true hero" when he rejected Juliette at a pivotal moment. If not for his emotional immaturity, that inbred piece of aristocratic filth Kenneth wouldn't have been able to exploit Juliette's vengeful impulses.
I don't expect my heroes to be completely infallible, but coming through when it counts is always the golden rule for me.
RE: Eve/Juliette - speakeasy - 01-05-2016
(01-05-2016, 11:11 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:(01-04-2016, 05:58 PM)speakeasy Wrote: Nick is a true hero, I agree. Where Renard is, in my opinion, a good man, Nick is one of the best of men.
IMO, Nick blew his chance at being a "true hero" when he rejected Juliette at a pivotal moment. If not for his emotional immaturity, that inbred piece of aristocratic filth Kenneth wouldn't have been able to exploit Juliette's vengeful impulses.
I don't expect my heroes to be completely infallible, but coming through when it counts is always the golden rule for me.
I've made more than one bad decision about a loved one, so maybe I'm going easier on Nick because of that. Nick made a bad decision, he failed the one person he shouldn't have failed. His life was just as destroyed as hers, I believe, because he knew he'd failed. Most believable heros do show some deep imperfection, some almost unforgivable error of judgement and that's his cross to bear. I have only to think of how he reacted to Juliette's being shot by Trubel to believe that.
This terrible thing about Kelly's being murdered by Kenneth may be temporarily standing in the way of this coming to terms with his role in letting Juliette down, but it will present again, imo. Because it needs resolution. People generally don't get forgiveness because they deserve it, but because they need it. People need to receive forgiveness and to give it in order to get on with their lives.
I can look past the way he let her down because I believe he lapsed out of impaired emotional thinking, but not because of any sort of distortion of character. For that reason, I'm able to think of Nick as a hero.
(01-05-2016, 10:14 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: @speakeasy. I agree with you about Sean. Many fans seem to think of him as evil. But I've always run him some slack because of what happened during his childhood.
Having members of your own family and their flunkies trying to hunt you down and kill you when you are just a kid!!?? That could distort anyone's perception of the world!
It's kinda lonely here in the Renard supporter section of the Forum, isn't it - we need to have a membership drive to swell our ranks to more than two! Probably be dangerous, tho', haha. Glad to know of at least one other supporter out there!
RE: Eve/Juliette - Sable677 - 01-05-2016
(01-05-2016, 12:00 PM)speakeasy Wrote:(01-05-2016, 10:14 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: @speakeasy. I agree with you about Sean. Many fans seem to think of him as evil. But I've always run him some slack because of what happened during his childhood.
Having members of your own family and their flunkies trying to hunt you down and kill you when you are just a kid!!?? That could distort anyone's perception of the world!
It's kinda lonely here in the Renard supporter section of the Forum, isn't it - we need to have a membership drive to swell our ranks to more than two! Probably be dangerous, tho', haha. Glad to know of at least one other supporter out there!
Another Sean fan here checking in.
RE: Eve/Juliette - speakeasy - 01-05-2016
(01-05-2016, 01:50 PM)Sable677 Wrote:(01-05-2016, 12:00 PM)speakeasy Wrote:(01-05-2016, 10:14 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: @speakeasy. I agree with you about Sean. Many fans seem to think of him as evil. But I've always run him some slack because of what happened during his childhood.
Having members of your own family and their flunkies trying to hunt you down and kill you when you are just a kid!!?? That could distort anyone's perception of the world!
It's kinda lonely here in the Renard supporter section of the Forum, isn't it - we need to have a membership drive to swell our ranks to more than two! Probably be dangerous, tho', haha. Glad to know of at least one other supporter out there!
Another Sean fan here checking in.
Yea! We few, we happy few, we band of Renard Grimmsters....
Got a little carried away, but it's great to know there's another fan around, Sable677, great hearing from you!
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 01-05-2016
it is not as reliable but is not bad precisely.
I think Sasha R. talked about Nick and Sean, while one is sincere in its relations, the other has dysfunctional relationships.It is seen in season one episode 13 when he dreams Sean has coins.
the people gathered below his balcony and Victorea.
.the as Nick did not know how to handle the relationship with Juliette "Hexenbiest"
but these things happen.not be the hero in this case is real life.
people do not always saved from death.
Juliette just gave him a chance.Not that she loved him?
she took her own decisions.
RE: Eve/Juliette - jsgrimm45 - 01-05-2016
I always thought Sean Renard was a the hardest character to act, because of all the baggage the character has. Some have put him with Eve does anyone see that? I think it the camera girl betting 2 cents on her not Eve.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Sable677 - 01-05-2016
(01-05-2016, 03:10 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: I always thought Sean Renard was a the hardest character to act, because of all the baggage the character has. Some have put him with Eve does anyone see that? I think it the camera girl betting 2 cents on her not Eve.
I am thinking that its the woman helping with filming the ad as well. That would tie into Sean's political story. Eve would be a retread of what happened last season.