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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 05-25-2016
(05-25-2016, 03:41 PM)syscrash Wrote: The writers made a big assumption. The assumption was people could distinguish between who you are and what you are and one does not define the other. From the comments, that is just to complicated a concept for people to understand. Look how many comments define Juliette and Eve by what they are and what they do. They fail to see Eve and Juliette at two different people. They don't even think the same, they don't even have the same priorities. I am sure there will be people who post examples of why this is not true. Not even realizing their post support my position that they just don't get it. The fact that people label Juliette and Diana evil, when the writers go out of their way to make them not evil. Shows people stick with their bias and not the writers intent.
The problem is, the actors themselves are sometimes total dicks and talk about crap that gets the fans going. Note the excerpt from Guintoli's interview, particularly his statements about Juliette and Eve:
Quote:That stick saved Eve (Bitsie Tulloch) and, for a moment there, we got a glimpse of the real Juliette. How is Nick getting his brain around that?
I know, right? Is there a worse time in a guy’s life to find out your woman has come back? We’re all in the middle of being killed! On top of that, Nick is now in love with a Hexenbiest and they have a child. Nick’s also gotta be thinking, “Does Juliette know she killed my mother, when she was Eve?” And who is actually responsible for that death? If it was Juliette, Nick couldn’t forgive her. If it happened as a side effect from Juliette becoming Adalind—which she was trying to do for Nick’s benefit—then I guess he would have to forgive her. So all that is yet to be discovered. But, right now, it’s all too much for Nick to take in. He’s, like, “We can’t do this now!”
Is he kidding? Is Grimm really going to sink back into the sludge to deal with this issue? Is that what he was talking about when he said they were going to focus on the core characters?
Without a doubt, Nick is the most corrupt cop I have ever seen portrayed on the screen. I thought that maybe, just maybe, they were molding him into a better public servant. For a while there, he wasn't contaminating crime scenes and he actually was acting like a police officer. But then Friday, he brings civilians Monroe and Rosalee into the precinct to shake Tony down because he's unable to perform his job. Obviously Grimm hasn't learned anything.
Giuntoli said in his interview that he thinks the series is going to focus on the core characters. Why not a story dealing with Nick's failings? Have a story where his ghosts come back to haunt him. Or a story where the FBI takes a keen and personal interest over what Nick did to Chavez. Or how about the Justice Department coming to call over the artifact that was stolen from Germany?
Sigh. But no. Instead we're to be led back into the boring past to find out what Juliette really knew and what she really felt and oh, gee, the cliffhanger of whether Nick is going to forgive her or not.
RE: Eve/Juliette - degrimm - 05-25-2016
from the way season 5 went down concerning eve/juliette, they have made us think eve and juliette are 2 different personalities instead of 2 different people with completely different way of thinking,feeling,acting but same body.
so if the writers tell me eve is still eve after what the stick did, then it's safe to assume juliette was dead and gone @ the end of season 4(stick with that and don't starting telling us that cos eve is protective of nick, part of juliette exist cos it doesn't mean the same);eve was created from the body of juliette.
my mindset going into season 6
juliette is dead and buried.
eve is alive and well the stick healed her and opened up her emotional part; so eve has emotions now and wont just go about exploding peoples brain to pieces but just do a mercy killing
RE: Eve/Juliette - FaceInTheCrowd - 05-25-2016
Unless HW had access to S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Tahiti machine, you don't destroy a personality, you suppress it into the subconscious through disassociation.
The reason Eve has access to Juliette's memory is because Juliette is still in there somewhere for her to cherry-pick what she needs from it. The reason Eve is relatively comfortable accessing Juliette's memory is because her own considerably repressed emotions are compartmentalized and operating separately from Juliette's.
There are two obvious ways things can go. One is that Juliette can start bubbling up from the depths and Eve has to either fight her for control or find a way to healthily integrate the two of them into a single, working personality. The other is that Juliette remains suppressed, but Eve's emotions become more active, making Juliette's memories of facts and experiences a much more dangerous place for her to "go."
I expect there are other ways things can go off the rails that I haven't even begun to imagine, too.
RE: Eve/Juliette - degrimm - 05-25-2016
(05-25-2016, 08:30 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Unless HW had access to S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Tahiti machine, you don't destroy a personality, you suppress it into the subconscious through disassociation.
The reason Eve has access to Juliette's memory is because Juliette is still in there somewhere for her to cherry-pick what she needs from it. The reason Eve is relatively comfortable accessing Juliette's memory is because her own considerably repressed emotions are compartmentalized and operating separately from Juliette's.
There are two obvious ways things can go. One is that Juliette can start bubbling up from the depths and Eve has to either fight her for control or find a way to healthily integrate the two of them into a single, working personality. The other is that Juliette remains suppressed, but Eve's emotions become more active, making Juliette's memories of facts and experiences a much more dangerous place for her to "go."
I expect there are other ways things can go off the rails that I haven't even begun to imagine, too.
what i am saying is that in my mindset juliette is dead and buried, so i don't go there anymore, whatever conflict eve would be having with pieces of juliette suppressed personalities and actions in S6 is up to them; to me i will see it as her malfunctioning eventually leading to her demise.
RE: Eve/Juliette - FaceInTheCrowd - 05-25-2016
That has the potential to seriously negatively impact your enjoyment of S6, depending on how the writers decide to go, but whatever works for you, I guess.
RE: Eve/Juliette - izzy - 05-25-2016
(05-25-2016, 05:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Is he kidding? Is Grimm really going to sink back into the sludge to deal with this issue? Is that what he was talking about when he said they were going to focus on the core characters?
Well, I would certainly prefer that to more asinine fantasy elements like treasure hunts, secret squirrel Government agencies and apparently a pointless wesen uprising (which could have made for a an excellent metaphorical debate for contemporary issues)
Quote:Without a doubt, Nick is the most corrupt cop I have ever seen portrayed on the screen.I agree 100%. He is a disgrace to everyone who ever took an oath.
But there you are thinking about the larger picture again my dear. Tsk, tsk; recall we were both admonished for demanding something more than the mere passage of time from a television show.
Quote:I thought that maybe, just maybe, they were molding him into a better public servant. For a while there, he wasn't contaminating crime scenes and he actually was acting like a police officer. But then Friday, he brings civilians Monroe and Rosalee into the precinct to shake Tony down because he's unable to perform his job. Obviously Grimm hasn't learned anything.
So, philosophically, can Nick ever redeem himself short of going to the Justice Department and confessing to all his violations of law and crimes? I have thought about this, and I do not think a change of attitude, or how he conducts himself going forward can ever make up for the harm he has done to Rosetta Stone of our civilization: respect for the rule of law.
He may become a better cop than he has, but I cannot see him achieving atonement without going trough the system of justice.
I really think it would be a positive statement for Nick to go through the process, an aspect of true character. Perhaps in the end he could be granted clemency for his actions(somehow) so it would be more palatable to the fans who watch for entertainment.
Quote:Why not a story dealing with Nick's failings? Have a story where his ghosts come back to haunt him. Or a story where the FBI takes a keen and personal interest over what Nick did to Chavez. Or how about the Justice Department coming to call over the artifact that was stolen from Germany?
Exactly. This is where I would hope the show would go and deal with substantive adult issues that expand one';s mind rather than providing yet another venue of distraction to a populace that seems unable to focus on anything of substance.
I am hopeful, all the actors and the directors and writers know this is there last hurrah. Chase tried to make a statement with the Sopranos though he blew it when he allowed the series to carry one so long people developed empathy for the central figures instead of the sentiment's he originally wanted to convey. In the end, Seinfeld made substantive statement and I applauded the show fro attempting to elevate the conversation in the end.
Grimm now can make a choice.
Quote:Sigh. But no. Instead we're to be led back into the boring past to find out what Juliette really knew and what she really felt and oh, gee, the cliffhanger of whether Nick is going to forgive her or not.
The writers may yet want to craft something deeper. It is all still in the development stage. The potential is there, will they squander it to appease the mind numbed masses desirous for shallow entertainment or will they seize an opportunity and try to elevate the series. It remains to be seen. I remain hopeful.
Based on you comments and my own thoughts, I created this thread to explore them in:
http://grimmforum.com/forum/Thread-How-should-NIck-be-redemed
RE: Eve/Juliette - degrimm - 05-25-2016
(05-25-2016, 09:24 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: That has the potential to seriously negatively impact your enjoyment of S6, depending on how the writers decide to go, but whatever works for you, I guess.
it had lost its taste for me right when wu started figuring out about wesen-grimm tales; i'm the type that believe in closed circle; the fewer people who know the more misery the film is.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 05-26-2016
(05-25-2016, 10:42 PM)izzy Wrote:(05-25-2016, 05:20 PM)irukandji Wrote: Is he kidding? Is Grimm really going to sink back into the sludge to deal with this issue? Is that what he was talking about when he said they were going to focus on the core characters?
Well, I would certainly prefer that to more asinine fantasy elements like treasure hunts, secret squirrel Government agencies and apparently a pointless wesen uprising (which could have made for a an excellent metaphorical debate for contemporary issues)
I wasn't against a wesen uprising. Some of the absolute best science fictions stories I've seen on television and at the movies involved uprisings. The issue with Grimm is they don't know how to write an uprising. We had a sort of uprising, but we don't know why. It sort of involved the world but really boiled down to Portland. We had a sort of worldwide government agency which was a top secret, but then they realized they only had two people to staff it in Portland so they brought in the scoobies? I won't even go into BC. Pointless? Completely.
I'm not against focus on the core characters. If way back when, Nick had given a rat's patoot and showed even a hint of conflict about whether he should forgive Juliette or not, that would be a great storyline. However, he never gave it any thought until he talked to Eve. Even then, he made a remark about it, she responded, he dropped it. It was never a big deal to him, in my opinion. Since then, he's had so many more important things to keep him busy, I can't imagine why something that wasn't a big issue to him when it happened would be a big issue in season six with less than the usual number of episodes to deal with.
RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 05-26-2016
(05-24-2016, 05:47 PM)degrimm Wrote:Hello DeGrimm,(05-24-2016, 05:18 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hello Forum,
TV Guide has been reviewing TV shows since 1953. Here is what they had to say about the Grimm show on Oct 29, 2015:
http://www.tvguide.com/news/grimm-season-5-premiere/
This predates the fabrication of FrankenEve, so it is written based on Juliette is DEAD. The title of the article say it all:
Quote:What's Grimm Without Juliette?Unfortunately, she came back.
Awesome
New Guy
this would create a conflict btw opposing views of adalind and juliette lovers; so tthis post is stupid and i'm not apologizing for my comments.
this only creates more annoying meaningless convos others have to be seeing again. the forum has been slightly peaceful now this again.
people like you will say later that why cant opposing fans get along, cos of this; you are meant to be criticizing that tvguide article instead of promoting it.
You commented:
Quote:tthis post is stupidIn this post I quoted and referenced a TV Guide article. TV Guide has been writing articles since 1953. IMO, they are not stupid. Perhaps you are calling me stupid? Is it the post that is "stupid?"
You continue with:
Quote:i'm not apologizing for my commentsBy replying to this post you are participating in and subject to your own judgment of content.
and:
Quote:this only creates more annoying meaningless convos others have to be seeing again.The title of this thread is "Eve/Juliette" and the TV Guide article is both on topic and vital to the understanding of the character. I find nothing therein to be annoying or meaningless.
New Guy
RE: Eve/Juliette - jsgrimm45 - 06-02-2016
We are to believe that the relic changed something inside Eve but what? They (if you believe them) that Eve is still Eve but not what that means. She just said to Trubel she feels but again what does that mean? If the Juliette of season 1 in a way is back would she still use her great powers to help or will she go on the warpath again against Adalind and Nick? Would she now become a problem for the scoobies? Could she change sides and join BC like she did the royals?