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Eve/Juliette - Printable Version

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RE: Eve/Juliette - jsgrimm45 - 04-18-2016

(04-17-2016, 08:53 PM)irukandji Wrote:
(04-17-2016, 08:11 PM)syscrash Wrote: You do not have to have been in the US military to know military tactics. There are groups that use military tatics that are not military.l The police a a good example.

Can you tell me what you mean by police using military tactics?

In the meantime, I'll share what I know. My father was a policeman. The way I understand this, the police cannot use military tactics in their day to day operations. They are charged with keeping the peace and preventing crime.

If the situation escalates to the point where the police can no longer use their resources to resolve the conflict, (i.e., it becomes a battle), the armed forces are called in.

The military has the manpower, organizational skills, strategy and weapons to fight the battle. Those are military tactics.

We had a tornado in our town a long time ago. We are equivalent in size to Portland and lost a quarter of our city to the storm. With so large of an area to cover, the police could not adequately protect the victims or their homes from looters. The armed forces were called in to guard and protect the victims and the devastated areas. If anyone who was unauthorized went into the area, they faced the threat of being shot and killed. The armed forces have that authority as part of their military tactics. Policemen do not.

I don't see Meisner as an American military man. I said he was a mercenary, and now that I think about that term, I was wrong in calling him that. Mercenaries do utilize military tactics, but from what I understand, they're usually a group that hold the same beliefs. Meisner doesn't fit into that mold. I'm not really sure what I would call him at this point.
I can't not speak to police training but I can in military. In your tornado that would have been national guard they are the only ones the governor can call out they are given different training than the regular army or the reserve. Only the president can use the regular army for something like that, and he or she would have to declare marshall law, because it is illegal to use the regular Army on US soil. National Guard go to basic training like any other soldier but once back to their state then they get the riot control and other police type training.

Now most of the national guard and reserve have been in combat because of the way the President Clayton change the units in the 1990"s. So yes they are now combat trained now, where I live when the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were going on the National Guard and Reserve unit trained here to deploy to get back up to regular Army level of training.

When the National Guard are used they act under police rules, sometimes they can't arrest only detain until the police get there. This depends on the governor how he or she sets the rules of engagement. These rule tell them when and if they can use deadly force.

I'd say most if not all mercenaries are former military so yes they know now basic training is done. Eve does act more like basic training than brainwash now the basic training may have been more as we use to say the brown boot Army. Basic was more shall we say a little more hands on in the brown boot Army. Now some will not know brown boot, in 1955 (my dad was in at that time) the Army change their boot color to black and they change what and NCO or a DI could do, like now a DI can't put his hands on you but in brown boot he could. (When I went in the Army in 1965 some of the DI were still from era of brown boot in their training they didn't lay hands on a trainee but still had the brown boot ideas)

I'm not saying Eve got a nice training from Meisner I would say it was more brown boot then black. But believe me black or brown boot basic training changes a person and that is what I see in Eve. IMO


RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-18-2016

(04-18-2016, 06:52 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote:
(04-17-2016, 08:53 PM)irukandji Wrote:
(04-17-2016, 08:11 PM)syscrash Wrote: You do not have to have been in the US military to know military tactics. There are groups that use military tatics that are not military.l The police a a good example.

Can you tell me what you mean by police using military tactics?

In the meantime, I'll share what I know. My father was a policeman. The way I understand this, the police cannot use military tactics in their day to day operations. They are charged with keeping the peace and preventing crime.

If the situation escalates to the point where the police can no longer use their resources to resolve the conflict, (i.e., it becomes a battle), the armed forces are called in.

The military has the manpower, organizational skills, strategy and weapons to fight the battle. Those are military tactics.

We had a tornado in our town a long time ago. We are equivalent in size to Portland and lost a quarter of our city to the storm. With so large of an area to cover, the police could not adequately protect the victims or their homes from looters. The armed forces were called in to guard and protect the victims and the devastated areas. If anyone who was unauthorized went into the area, they faced the threat of being shot and killed. The armed forces have that authority as part of their military tactics. Policemen do not.

I don't see Meisner as an American military man. I said he was a mercenary, and now that I think about that term, I was wrong in calling him that. Mercenaries do utilize military tactics, but from what I understand, they're usually a group that hold the same beliefs. Meisner doesn't fit into that mold. I'm not really sure what I would call him at this point.
I can't not speak to police training but I can in military. In your tornado that would have been national guard they are the only ones the governor can call out they are given different training than the regular army or the reserve. Only the president can use the regular army for something like that, and he or she would have to declare marshall law, because it is illegal to use the regular Army on US soil. National Guard go to basic training like any other soldier but once back to their state then they get the riot control and other police type training.

Now most of the national guard and reserve have been in combat because of the way the President Clayton change the units in the 1990"s. So yes they are now combat trained now, where I live when the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were going on the National Guard and Reserve unit trained here to deploy to get back up to regular Army level of training.

When the National Guard are used they act under police rules, sometimes they can't arrest only detain until the police get there. This depends on the governor how he or she sets the rules of engagement. These rule tell them when and if they can use deadly force.

I'd say most if not all mercenaries are former military so yes they know now basic training is done. Eve does act more like basic training than brainwash now the basic training may have been more as we use to say the brown boot Army. Basic was more shall we say a little more hands on in the brown boot Army. Now some will not know brown boot, in 1955 (my dad was in at that time) the Army change their boot color to black and they change what and NCO or a DI could do, like now a DI can't put his hands on you but in brown boot he could. (When I went in the Army in 1965 some of the DI were still from era of brown boot in their training they didn't lay hands on a trainee but still had the brown boot ideas)

I'm not saying Eve got a nice training from Meisner I would say it was more brown boot then black. But believe me black or brown boot basic training changes a person and that is what I see in Eve. IMO

Thanks for the explanation, js. My point was that the police are not in the same capacity as the armed forces. You are right, they would have called the national guard. The national guard is a reserve military force, and different from a city police department.

I don't see Eve as military, so I'll just say her training was of a rigorous nature. However, I refer to only her physical training. More went on with her than just that. She was magically changed and since Grimm is a magic show, to my way of thinking, she was brainwashed in some magical way.


RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 04-18-2016

Hello Forum,
I failed my draft physical and did not go to Vietnam. I have friends who served in Korea, Vietnam and Iraq. All of them had "training."
Hadrian's Wall (HW) is a Secret Government Organization (SGO) and it seems that FrankenEve is an HW weapon. She is cast as a "super agent." In the US military, the Navy SEALs are the most highly trained:
http://www.military.com/special-operations/training-to-be-a-navy-seal.html
There were about eight months from 4.22 when Trubel shot Hexenette until 5.07 we see FrankenEve explode heads at the BC factory.
There was a scene where she awakens and Meisner tells her she is dead. Then there is the scene from 5.01 (Grimm Wiki):
Quote:At what appeared to be a high-security prison of some sort, FBI Agent Katrina Chavez checked on an unknown person or entity of some kind through a slit in a cell door, and whatever was inside charged at her while screaming as she shut the slit. She asked if there had been any changes, and Meisner appeared from the shadows and said that there hadn't been any for the better. When Chavez responded that they were playing with fire, Meisner said that they needed fire.
IMO, FrankenEve got very little "Military Training" but Meisner had to reduce her uncontrolled aggression and make her focus on HW's mission. IMO, Meisner's "training" was physical and would have caused FrankenEve to react using her telekinetic power with intent to kill him. He survived all FrankenEve threw at him, so she is not invincible and her telekinesis power can be neutralized.
New Guy


RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 04-18-2016

It is amazing how so many people have no clue about what goes on in the military. Everyone that has gone through the military has been subjected to an extensive physical and psychological training. I don't see eve needing the physical training since she does not use physical means in her fighting.

Do you people even have a clue what happens in boot camp. Have you even considered why new recruits have no individuality. The reason, boot camps drills out any sense of self. You have no name, no identity, you have no association with your past. The purpose they break you down to nothing so they can build you back the way they want you.

You may think that Eve is this brain washed robot. But she is no difference then any recruit fresh out of boot camp.


RE: Eve/Juliette - FaceInTheCrowd - 04-18-2016

I suspect that what HW did to Juliette to turn her into Eve is more akin to what some cults do. People in the military learn to sublimate their individuality to their duty when required, but they still retain their identities and their personal relationships. Juliette/Eve didn't join up and go through Basic, she was deprogrammed from her previous identity and reprogrammed into a new one with little or no personal connection to her past except a mental "database" of Juliette's memories (or so she claims). In order to accomplish that, more than training and a few beatings would have been required; possibly some psychotropic drugs and some hefty doses of ECT.

I also wonder whether Eve is really a fully fledged member of HW who acts on her own judgement. Trubel told Nick HW is "using a hexenbiest as a weapon," so it's possible she's being kept on a leash and all her actions are being dictated by Meisner.


RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-18-2016

(04-18-2016, 11:53 AM)syscrash Wrote: It is amazing how so many people have no clue about what goes on in the military. Everyone that has gone through the military has been subjected to an extensive physical and psychological training. I don't see eve needing the physical training since she does not use physical means in her fighting.

Do you people even have a clue what happens in boot camp. Have you even considered why new recruits have no individuality. The reason, boot camps drills out any sense of self. You have no name, no identity, you have no association with your past. The purpose they break you down to nothing so they can build you back the way they want you.

You may think that Eve is this brain washed robot. But she is no difference then any recruit fresh out of boot camp.

Practically everyone I work with has been in the armed forces. None of them have come back insisting that they are now someone else and their previous self had died. There is a difference with Eve.

Why is it so hard to believe that she might have been magically altered?


RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 04-18-2016

Quote:Practically everyone I work with has been in the armed forces. None of them have come back insisting that they are now someone else and their previous self had died. There is a difference with Eve.

Why is it so hard to believe that she might have been magically altered?

Everyone comes out of the Military is changed. Do they change their names no. But they are not the same person. Of everyone I know that has come out is extremely regimented, and focused. I know only on person that joined special forces. Before he went in he was not really a ball of laughs. But afterward. He is scary. Being his friend you feel really safe drinking with him in a bar. What I fear is when someone comes up to us, and starts to act like a jerk. Have not seen him go off yet. But he becomes so intimidating without saying anything. I have not seen anyone not back down and walk away. As for name change, there are only a few that know his real name. When he came back he had changed his Nick name. Even my son all his life we called him by his Nick name. Now he goes by his last name. Just like they did in the service.


RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-18-2016

(04-18-2016, 12:45 PM)syscrash Wrote:
Quote:Practically everyone I work with has been in the armed forces. None of them have come back insisting that they are now someone else and their previous self had died. There is a difference with Eve.

Why is it so hard to believe that she might have been magically altered?

Everyone comes out of the Military is changed. Do they change their names no. But they are not the same person. Of everyone I know that has come out is extremely regimented, and focused. I know only on person that joined special forces. Before he went in he was not really a ball of laughs. But afterward. He is scary. Being his friend you feel really safe drinking with him in a bar. What I fear is when someone comes up to us, and starts to act like a jerk. Have not seen him go off yet. But he becomes so intimidating without saying anything. I have not seen anyone not back down and walk away. As for name change, there are only a few that know his real name. When he came back he had changed his Nick name. Even my son all his life we called him by his Nick name. Now he goes by his last name. Just like they did in the service.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the military. I had a brother in the military and he changed. For the better, I will add.

Is this what happened with Eve? I don't think so.


RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 04-19-2016

Hello Forum,
As one of the "clueless" Forum posters, I defer to others who may have a clue. I found several articles that discus a 6-year study, conducted by Joshua J. Jackson and teams of researchers from Washington University in St. Louis and the University of Tubingen in Germany, published in Psychological Science. You can read these and decide for yourself.
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/does-the-military-make-the-man-or-does-the-man-make-the-military.html
https://psmag.com/how-the-military-can-change-personalities-slightly-a76578b37a0f
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/time-out/201203/military-service-changes-soldiers-personalities
I find it interesting that ". . . it is enlightening, but also a cause of concern, that the study found even greater differences in Agreeableness between the soldier and civilian subjects years after military service, when they had returned to work or school. A disagreeable personality is a social handicap."
I see stories in the news about veterans with PTSD and hope they can be helped. I have observed some disagreeable behavior on the Forum. I also have several friends who are veterans who get along just fine. My father was a 20 year veteran and was a loving, caring man who was also very disciplined. Dad and I didn't agree about everything, but I never questioned his love and knew he could be trusted.
New Guy


RE: Eve/Juliette - degrimm - 04-29-2016

(12-12-2015, 07:46 AM)grimmfan14 Wrote: They already gave the answers. She has Juliette's memories but none of her emotional attachments.

SO. I can already tell they're going to have Nick break through her "wall" and get back those emotions and fall in love new, which is just SO PREDICTABLE UGH.

dont dream of that happening